View Full Version : No ban AR-15?
09-20-2004, 09:42 PM
I am just now looking into getting my first AR15. Since the ban has finally sunsetted, I want to get one with all the goodies on it. However, I don't much at all about AR's. There are so many different brands and models to choose from. I've been reading up a bit and have heard that Colt is no longer offering no ban AR's to the public, only LE. I would like to stick with a company that has good CS and will treat me right. I've considered Bushmaster. What do you guys recommend? Resale value on different brands? Then, the next question. Which model? So many to choose from? I'm not really looking for a plinker or varmint gun...more so a gun that would be good for if the SHTF type of situation. Opinions would be greatly appreciated!
09-20-2004, 10:49 PM
I celabrated the death of the ban with a NIB Colt 9mm AR-15..LEO... If you find a dealer that has one, more than likely he will sell it to you,...
Some will ***** and moan about the sear blocking web that is in the receiver.. But I never intend to use a DIAS so I don't let it bother me..
I have heard of reliability issues with Bushmaster, but never experience any with the one I had.. RRA also looks good.. DPMs as well...
09-21-2004, 01:32 AM
Bushmaster has some great prices and you can get it in any configuration you want. My first AR was a colt and I just recently sold it. It was a post ban 16" barrel. I like my AK's better. AR's are going for $850.00 and up!
09-21-2004, 08:49 AM
Build your own.
They are much simpler to build than a AK, in fact it is really more of a assembly than a real build, since you can start with a finished receiver.
No cutting, welding or riveting like with a AK.
You'll save money and there is no better way to become one with your rifle, than by putting it together yourself.
Buy a stripped lower from Oly, RR, Bushmaster or DPMS etc and a kit from Model 1, M&A, RR, J&T etc.
You can pick up a forged lower for $100 and the kits start at around $400.
I've built three of them and they all run like a clock.
You can do it, all the info you need is available right here.
If you run into any problems, give me a holler.
09-21-2004, 09:01 AM
Here's a couple of links
I bought my kits from Model 1, but the parts used in the kits these guy's sell, are all made by Government contractors, so if you go with any of the ones listed above, you will be OK.
09-21-2004, 09:12 AM
What do you believe is the best receiver? I have seen a lot of ads claiming one to be good and another ad claiming something else. Jack
09-21-2004, 09:27 AM
As long as it's forged (most also offer cast) and made by one of the companies mentioned above, you will be in good shape.
These are all made on CNC machines to Government specs, meaning the receiver must accept Gov spec parts, so that everything is interchangeable between manufacturers.
I used Olympics on two and a Bushmaster on the other.
I bought the two Olympics at the same time (consecutive numbers) for $95 ea plus $20 for the transfer, $9.50 tax. $219.50 out the door.
The rifle I built on the Bushy receiver, was for a buddy, he supplied the receiver, so I don't know exactly what he paid, but it was in the same ballpark.
09-21-2004, 09:42 AM
Now that the ban is over I want to build another one using one of these kits
09-21-2004, 11:30 AM
Thats what I was thinking, I like the A3 because if you want to do anything besides a carry handle you can, or just add a carry handle.
09-21-2004, 12:46 PM
I think I'm going to use a A2 upper this time, only because the two I already built are A3's.
But you are right the A3 is much more versatile.
On my CAR, I have a EO Tech on a 3rd gen riser mount and my Varminter has a 6-12 x 44 AO scope on xtra tall rings.
09-21-2004, 11:23 PM
Is there a noticable difference in the finish between lower recievers and upper assemblies among the different manufactures? I have been thinking of getting a RRA lower and one of the model1 kits, but just wondering if there is a chance of a real noticable difference in the finish.
09-22-2004, 08:46 AM
They are all finished to Mil spec. so they finish is almost identical.
I have not compared a RR receiver to the model 1 upper side by side, but the Bushmaster and the Olympics matched up very nicely.
Here is one of the Olympics
09-22-2004, 01:51 PM
Thanks so much for the info. I think I will do exactly what you mentioned. Not knowing a thing about AR's, I've got a few questions.
Are there serial numbers on parts other than the lower receiver? If so, does the value go down since all the numbers don't match?
Does the quality differ at all when you are dealing with the complete parts kits? I guess if they are all mil-spec they should be very close. Do you prefer one brand of parts kits over another?
Finish? If I order a stripped lower, do they come with one standard finish? If not, which is the best? Do the parts kits also have to be in the same finish? Or,can you get them in different finishes?
If building is just this easy, what are you paying for when you buy a preassembled AR, from lets say Bushmaster? Why doesn't everyone build there own? What would I get from a "full-gun" buy from a big name seller like colt or bushmaster, that I wouldn't get if I built it myself....a warranty maybe?
I really appreciate all of the input guys.
09-22-2004, 03:57 PM
The only serial number is on the lower receiver.
The parts in the kits from any of the suppliers I mentioned will be comparable if not identical.
In fact the only kit supplier I would recommend you definitely stay away from is ASA (heard way too many horror stories, kinda the Joeken of the AR crowd)
Most all of these kit suppliers are using the same Mil-Spec parts (probably from the same vendors) in their kits with exception of the barrels.
They are mostly supplied by ER Shaw and Wilson (both good)
I have had good success with Model-1, and would recommend them.
I have built 3 using their kits and will be ordering another one soon.
Your stripped lower will come through with a very tough Mil-Spec finish and will match the upper, very closely if not exactly.
As Henry Ford once said regarding his Model T, "You can have whatever color you want, as long as it's black"
One thing you will be saving by building your own is the Federal Excise Tax, which is added to the cost of a finished AR.
I have heard several different amounts as to how much the FET is, ranging from $40 to $100, so I can't tell you exactly.
All these kits come with uppers that have been headspaced and test fired, and assembling a lower is Ice cream compared to building a AK.
There are only two tools I would consider mandatory and that is a pivot pin detent tool, You can get one from Brownells for $8, (or you can use the pin from a 1/4" clevis, it will do the job) and a set of roll pin punches.
They have a little tit on the end that centers them on the roll pin, and keeps the punch from sliding off while you are driving the pin in.
$19 from Brownells, but may be available cheaper at Sears, Home depot etc.
09-22-2004, 09:08 PM
I thought I'd post a updated (post 9/13) pic of the CAR I posted above.
I also snapped a pic of my varminter as well.
09-22-2004, 09:40 PM
What caliber do you reccomend, 223 or the 5.56 nato? aks'4me
09-23-2004, 08:26 AM
Get it chambered in 5.56, that will allow you to use both.
09-23-2004, 01:35 PM
I have heard that some lowers are marked "multi". What exactly does this mean? Can you configure the rifle to fire certain calibers that were specified when the manufacturer built the lower?
09-23-2004, 02:56 PM
When you buy a stripped lower, the cal designation will say multi.
This is because they do not know what caliber upper you will be using.
09-27-2004, 11:38 PM
10-01-2004, 04:44 AM
Now that the ban is over I want to build another one using one of these kits
http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=KCEM46&storeid=1&image=carm416pre.gif 7.62 Is this rifle over 30 inchs when the stock is collapsed. I want to build one of these too but MI has a under 30 inch with stock callapsed must be registered as a pistol law on the books. ak'sr4me
10-01-2004, 08:44 AM
I'll measure the OAL with the stock collapsed tonight when I get home.
10-01-2004, 09:33 AM
Thanks 7.62. I would greatly appreciate it. I would like to order it asap, but no sense getting one with the collapsable stock if I am going to have to pin it open. ak'sr4me
10-01-2004, 08:17 PM
I received an email from model one today stating that he has lived in Lapeer Mi for the last 15 years and this is the first he has heard of the 30 inch law. But you can go to the ak 47 files where they have groups for each state you live in and they all say the same thing. 30 or less, must be registered as a pistol in MI. Please help me decode MI. law. ak'sr4me
10-01-2004, 09:19 PM
It measures 32-5/8" with the stock fully collapsed.
This one was built while the ban was in effect, so the brake is welded on.
If I measure to the weld, it is 30-3/4". So you are good to go either way.
The way I understand it, you are correct concerning the MI law.