View Full Version : FAL receiver / ammo questions
12-01-2006, 12:57 AM
Hello guys, got some questions here:
1) I read the commercial 308 spec has a chamber pressure roof of 66,000 psi while the 7.62x51 spec is only 50,000, does this mean the commercial 308 hunting rounds should not be used in a FAL? (Such as the Hornady light-mag stuff.) What might happen if the round is too hot, which part of the FAL will get damaged ?
2) what is the difference among type 1,2 & 3 receivers? are they all the same accuracy-wise? will the carry handle cut/no cut affect accuracy?
3) I heard the type 3 has the least cuts and is the heaviest, will that make the whole gun stronger so it can better handle hot loads?
4) Besides the DSA and Imbel, what other receiver would you recommand for a build? Are the Enterprice receivers any good? My main concern is the accuracy and ease of building (like barrel timing).
12-01-2006, 02:07 AM
1: I'll leave that to a ballistics expert!
2: Type one has the most lightening cuts to it, basically just metal cut away in non-critical areas to make the receiver as light as possible. This gives it it's distinctive look and contours. The type two is a modified version of the type one with fewer/different cuts. This was brought about because some of the earlier type ones were cracking under sustained full auto use. The type three essentially eliminated the cuts as a money saving move. Carry handle cut or not is mainly cosmetic. Accuracy is not match grade on most FALs anyway, so not much difference in receiver type regarding accuracy.
3: Not a metallurgist, but the type three is probably not much/any stronger than a type two. Hot loads will probably loosen the locking shoulder before any thing else. Also, many receivers are cast instead of forged. Forged will give more strength than cast.
4: Entreprise and Century are probably the two receivers that require the most tweaking. The last batch of Imbels was not much better from some reports. The new DCI run looks promising. The DSA is still the best though.
12-01-2006, 02:14 AM
The last time I checked out a box or the Hornady Light Mag ammo it stated on the box not to use it in a semi auto firearm or severe damage could occur.
12-02-2006, 04:40 AM
how much does the new DCI receiver go for, anybody know?
The DSA is like $450, that is a little too much for me...
12-04-2006, 11:59 PM
If you are trying to build a FAL for precision shooting, you WILL need a custom barrel. Do not use any surplus barrels. They are fine for most tasks related to battle rifle use, but do not do well beyond 400 meters at a maximum. After about 30 rounds, they will wander up to 3 MOA at 100 meters. A heavier contour barrel will do better, but not by much in my experience.
Accuracy is determined by many factors. They main factor as far as I am concerned is the lockup between the barrel and receiver, and other demensional factors such as headspace.
As a side note, you can build a tack driver out of an old mauser in 7.62x51 NATO for about the cost of a quality kit.
Check out these guys, I like them, and have built many rifles based on these parts (Mauser):
Look for PH001, this is the barrel.
Look for GUN126, this is the complete action.
Next, go to:
Item #: 300-101 This is the Trigger
Item #: 800-102 These are the Scope Mounts
Item #: 400-117 This is the best replacement safety, but look below
for an alternate. It's less expensive, and I like it....
Next, go to:
Take your pick...
Then, go to:
that's the safety...for scope clearance, this one is left handed, but I like them.
You'll do well to have this guy put it all together for you if you are not set up to do Mausers....He does great work for little $$$
At a minimum, you'll want hime to do these things for you:
Barrel Install pre-threaded and short chambered barrel.
This includes: squaring the action, finish reaming, crowning, caliber stamp and test firing. Click here for a word about chamberings. (http://www.skaggsgunsmithing.com/chamberings.shtml)
Weld on new bolt handle, this includes Handle and polishing of the bolt.
Drill and Tap for scope mounts - Mauser Actions
About $395.00 with shipping.....
If you can't drive nails with this rifle, and Good Lake City ammo at 500 - 800 meters, then you will need training, or your eyes checked. Do not forget to add a scope and rings.
What do you get to do? The stock, the finish, and a lot of good honest distance shooting. The end product will weigh in at a hair over 12 pounds. A bit heavy for hunting.....
.308 vs 7.62x51 NATO....There are differances; and it is more than chamber pressure. Check the reloading manuals, I will defer to those sources. In the rifle described above, Skaggs can re-chamber for .308 with no sweat......The rifle will digest it and want more!
I think I know how you feel, and I went through my long and frustrating phase of trying to make a FAL into a precision rifle. You are welcome to try. Who knows, maybe you will succeed where I failed. I wish you luck and happiness.
If you have to do a Precision FAL, GO WITH DSA. Otherwise, go with Entreprise.
12-05-2006, 02:56 AM
Thanks for the info Bellson.
I know a precision bolt gun can be built with relativly little money, right handed ones that is. I am not too picky about accuracy, expecting moa for bolt action, consistant 2moa if it is a semi. I am a left handed shooter so the generic bolt guns won't work for me, and the lefty bolt actions are relatively expensive to build. I don't have that much a left/right problem when using semi-auto so I thought I might as well get a semi-308. The G3 is not lefty friendly at all and neither is the AR-10. The M14 is fine but scope mounting is iffy, I don't trust side mounts, have heard they can lose zero (now I know the M14 mounts are usually pretty good but if I am gonna put down $1.5k I don't like to take any chances); The AK based 308's also have side mount problem, so the only thing left is a FAL....
being very lefty friendly the FAL is a good option for me, if it can maintain the 2moa accuracy that is. I didn't realize the FAL's don't always hold 2moa. Well all I have bought so far is a Imbel kit, so I am not out too much money. what kind of accuracy is a imbel barrel capable of? If they are more like 3moa on a good receiver then maybe I really have to look harder at the DSA match.....but they are so expensive:bawling:
12-05-2006, 12:49 PM
Guncats, have you looked at getting a Romanian PSL in .308
Also the side mounts on the AK, Saiga, PSL are rock solid. I have never had any issues with loss of zero on my PSL.
12-05-2006, 03:16 PM
Gunbroker is a good source for FAL receivers.
I recently scored a Imbel GL for $370 there.
12-05-2006, 06:56 PM
voland, I am not very fond of Romanian stuff, even the military grade seem rough to me. The PSL is just a long piston AK, I don't see why it will shoot any better than a Vepr (well except the vepr's barrel is not quite as long).
problem with ak side mounts: yes they can be very solid, but they are still on a sheet metal receiver. 1.5mm RPK thickness is better than 1mm, but unless absolutly necessary I won't want to use side mounts of any kind. Plus these guns are riveted together, there can be movement between receiver/trunnion. The SVD uses a side mount too but the rail is at least milled from the receiver block, one piece solid, and the barrel is threaded into the receiver block. Even with that the Chinese SVD's still suffer scope/mount problem. The grouping capability is there, but there is no guarrantee that the point of impact will always be in the same spot.
My experience with side mounts has been negativ so far. I have one of the Enfield 303 No.4, sporterized by Golden state arms in the 60's. I have mounted a side plate mount to it, rock solid mounting, with integrated rings (was a shot gun side mount, I drilled and tapped and used two counter-sunk 1/4"-24 screw to hold it to side of receiver, plus one press pin. Scope is a BSA bigCat 1.5-6x42, not exactly a super cheap scope). Now I know it is a cheap rifle, paid $120 for it, it is usually a 1.5-2moa gun. But finally I found out the PMC 180gr Sp rounds can really make this thing shoot, 3 shot groups are consistantly moa or less, some time sub 1/2" moa. the grouping capability is very consistant, pretty much always shoot that kind of groups. But the groups are not always at the same spot, the groups shot 3 month ago can be 1-2" away from the group I shot last week. all good groups individually, but the big picture doesn't look good, still like 2.5moa overall. the point of impact movement is mostly vertical, so the only thing I can think of is the side mount rocking back and forth a very very small amount despite the "solid" mount/receiver connection. In my oppinion this is stronger mounting than what is on the saiga/vepr/PSL.
I am not saying side mounts will never work, but in order to make it work it has to be very very strong, and I don't see that happening with AK's rivet/sheet metal combination.
The FAL's top cover mount is far from ideal, but it has not been proven to be problematic (to me) yet, so I can still hope it works. :wink:
or does it work?
7.62, $370 is a lot of money for a receiver........and I am a poor guy:crybaby:
have fun guys
12-06-2006, 09:15 AM
7.62, $370 is a lot of money for a receiver........and I am a poor guy:crybaby:
It is, but It was cheap for a Imbel GL, most of the ones on gunbroker go in the $450 range.
12-07-2006, 11:53 AM
There is a Imbel at the FAL files right now going for $395 (just listed)
12-07-2006, 03:48 PM
i picked up my dsa for 375 at my local dealer but i think they are out now. that was in july.
12-09-2006, 09:52 PM
There are some slight dimensional differences in 308 and 762x51 very slight, I have fired over 2k rounds of winchester commercial 308 (thanks to OLIN)in my imbel receivered stg58 in the past 15 years and have never noticed a single problem and I have used 308 dies to reload 7.62x51 for over 20 years and havent had any problems, LOTS of folks will tell you this is the wrong thing todo but it has worked fine for me. The service lif of the FAL according to The FAL (a book) is 40k rounds before the receiver stretches to the end of its service limit
12-09-2006, 09:58 PM
I forgot to mention I shoot 308 in my 1919 alot also
12-11-2006, 01:12 PM
The problem comes mostly from firing commercial .308 in rifles converted from 8mm to 7.62NATO, especially Spanish FR-8s and FR-7s.