View Full Version : Myers Lathe
09-26-2010, 02:19 AM
Thanks to ViperDude (VD) I got a hold of a guy that posted on the Practical Machinist forum that wanted to sell a Myers 11"x36" lathe, it's an antique but I think it will do for my needs right now and the price was within my tight budget.
Two things that need taken care of is 1) two of the back gears need a tooth on each fixed 2) and a new belt to replace the leather one.
Anyone know of a modern fix for the leather belt, or do I just need to look for leather?
OH, and I might have to replace the motor, it looks usable but it will need some wiring work done before I know.
Here's some pics he sent me in an email, I'll get some as I progress with it.
09-26-2010, 02:21 AM
Here's a few more pics and two showing the gears that need fixed.
09-26-2010, 02:30 AM
Do a search on Ebay for flat belts, they make a nylon one that works better than leather. IIRC, the guy charges by the foot.
09-26-2010, 07:22 AM
One more time.... The last attempt here was blown into cyberspace.
The modern composite flat belts transfer more power than the leather types. They are assembled with either hinge clips or glue to the size needed.
Missing gear teeth can be restored using brass braze filler carved to proper form using a mill and fly cutter or with hand files. Brass has plenty of strength for this application. Some lathes use pot metal, fiber, or plastic gears !!!
The back gears on many lathes have busted teeth because people crash them or try to remove stuck chucks by locking them in backgear and regular drive (simultaneously). Don't do that !!! Use a strap wrench or sandwich wood blocks around the bull gear to secure it while working on the stuck chuck. Moleman got his chuck freed up doing this routine (plus some heat and penetrating fluid, patience...).
Lacking a mill and spare time to make your gears you might ask the moleman for some assistance.
That's a cool little green lathe in the pics. Parts do show up on ebay but it does require some knowledge of what will fit your lathe bed. Rumor has it that Southbend stuff may fit, but don't quote me on that. I notice that there is a steadyrest included. That is a major good thing to have for gun barrel work.
Another thing to check is the assortment of threading gears to be sure you have them all. Use the threading chart to inventory the gear stack. Missing gears can sometimes be found on ebay or from gear manufacturers. Besides the big companies like Boston Gear there are small homeshop guys who make spare gears and even metric conversion gears. Check also with the seller as he may have already covered this ground.
09-26-2010, 04:15 PM
Congrats Coils! With the mill you got last year and this lathe you'll be setting pretty when it comes to machine something. Viper Dude walked me through repairing the gears in my sheldon lathe thread. I for some reason I thought it was going to be harder than it actually was and I was overfitting the fly cutter. He finally had to tell me I didn't have to make it aero space quality for it to work. I did have the advantage of also having a working lathe to help make a fly cutter and turn off the excess braze from the gears prior to machining them. As Viper Dude pointed out the brass is plenty strong enough. Both of my lathes have a plastic/formica safety gear somewhere in them which should be alot weaker than brass. If you have any questions or need help on something to get you going, let me know. I'll help if I can.
09-26-2010, 06:01 PM
I'd forgotten that you had a mill. DUHHHH !!!! Using a simple home made fly cutter you can carve the gear teeth on your mill as moleman did. A simple index device can be made from bits and scrap that will properly position the gears in a mill vise for the fly cutter. The secret is to use the good teeth on the repair gear to act as the index locator. It can also be done using careful scribe lines on the brazed-up and trimmed gear.
For a lathe tool post device I like the simple block turret type that is OEM on most asian lathes these days. Many fellows are enamored to the spendy quick change tool posts (QCTP). They are slick but not vital for non-production home shop work. I have used all types of tool posts from crude home made atrocities to QCB's.
To repair the lathe bull gear you will need to remove it from the headstock. When removing that shaft it is very important to keep the location of the bearing caps and spacers from changing. Babit bearing lathes use factory shims between the cap and the headstock to set the proper spacing. As a lathe wears a shim or two are removed to snug the bearings back to spec.
Look for a copy of the book "HowTo Run A Lathe" from Southbend Co. It is a handy little basic book on lathe stuff. I suspect that the town library in Columbia, PA may have some Meyers lathe secrets if one cares to excavate. The company vanished around 1923.
Feel free to PM me if you have questions on how to do any of this stuff. I'll try to help.
09-26-2010, 11:54 PM
Thank you, thank you and thank you :D
Get a friend and his friend to come over today to help get it out of the Grand Cherokee :D and the legs back on, I'll spend a few hours of free time tomorrow tinkering with it.
I'll look around on ebay for those nylon flat belts, glad to hear they work better.
I'm going to look at Moleman's thread about the gears when I'm done here, I read it before but now I need the info so I have to make it stick in my head this time.
I think I know someone who can do the brazing as long as the place he works at isn't to busy, if he can't I'll check welding and machine shops in the area.
Yeah I got to look around for a tool holder thing, it came with one but it looks as old as the machine itself, it most likely will still work but I think I'd like something a little more modern. And I already looked at those "quick change" ones, and the are pricey to me, maybe later.
That's a good idea about checking the library, didn't think of that.
09-27-2010, 12:55 AM
Coils, What are the approx diameters of the gears that need fixed. Would a 1/4" bit be wide enough to cut your gears? I unfortunately just moved away from the welder that brazed my gears. I did degrease the gears, sandblast the area to be repaired, then degreased the gear again right before heading over to the welders. I wanted to make sure the repaired area was as clean as possible.
If you have any questions about how I set up or cut the gears just send me a pm and I'll help if I can.
09-27-2010, 01:20 AM
Off hand no I don't have any idea what the diameter is, I'll try to figure it out tomorrow, I was hoping to start talking it apart then.
1) that's a Babbitt bearing lathe. You *must* oil the headstock bearings every time you use it.
2) if you're going to replace or repair several gears AND buy a belt AND maybe replace the motor AND maybe a taper attachment AND maybe some other stuff... google "e-leadscrew", find the home site, and take a look at the "electronic leadscrew" or "ELS".
The ELS is a doohickey that uses a stepper motor and spindle encoder to replace all those parts you were talking about. It'll do any thread pitch, tapers, curves, feed rates, you name it, just by pushing buttons on the little box.
I've been considering buying one for my old Atlas lathe - my leadscrew needs to be replaced, and I need to build or make a taper attachment, and it'd be really nice to be able to profile a barrel instead of just a straight taper... if I didn't already have the quick-change gearbox I'd've made the jump. As it is, I can't quite justify the purchase.
09-27-2010, 07:49 PM
Moleman the two gears that need fixed are about 2.2" and 5.8" in diameter, the larger one basically looks like yours but the smaller one has a flange or cylinder on it to fit into the step pulleys that the belt rides on.
Yeah I figured it has babbitt bearings, actually had to look it up because I didn't know that's what they were called. :D The bearings on the main shaft look like thay are brass or bronze.
As for 2) - If I want to use the back gear I'll need to fix a couple gears, I could run it in direct drive if I wanted but figure I might as well try to fix it first.
I googled that "e-leadscrew" and didn't see a site with that name? But found a few sites when I searched it and "electronic leadscrew". Didn't see anything for the drive motor/belt thing though, just saw stuff to power the leadscrew and cross feed, like a self contained CNC system, one looks like it's a kit and everything needs to be built. Any idea what these systems cost? It looks interesting enough to look into some more for later on.
09-27-2010, 09:06 PM
Coils, the larger bull gear I repaired had a ring on the back side that stuck out about an inch or so that went inside of the belt step pulley. There was also a smaller gear press fitted on the other end of the belt pulley, but mine was ok. Is this flange a larger diameter than the bottem of the tooth root? and if so is it just pressed on and can be removed for machining? As long as you can bolt one side of the gear up against the jig, you should have little trouble cutting out the gear teeth as long as nothing is blocking the teeth. IIRC the larger bull gear on mine was a little over 6" and the setup VIper Dude recomended worked perfectly.
09-28-2010, 12:04 AM
No the cylinder thing that goes in the step pulleys is just smaller then the tooth root.
It doesn't look like it can be removed, it's sticking out about 2". Think of a cylinder with a fairly large flange at one end, then cutting the teeth for the gear out of that flange.
I think a set up like you used will work to hold it in place.
One good thing, the welder guy said he can do that for me.
09-28-2010, 12:23 AM
Good news! I misunderstood and thought the flange was a larger diameter and right up next to the gear. After you get the gears brazed you'll need to turn off the excess so the repaired area is the same width and diameter. Tight fitting center plugs also need to be made to keep the gear in place as it is indexed. If you don't have access to a lathe let me know.
09-28-2010, 12:34 AM
If you don't have access to a lathe let me know.
Not one that's working :D
Since you mentioned it, I'll most likely get a hold of you when I get the gears back from the welder. I'll also get a pic or two before I take them to him.
09-28-2010, 12:54 AM
To trim the lump of repair brass down to proper size on the gears you can use a mill as a lathe of sorts. The work (gears) are attached to the mill quill with a mandrel. The quill feed is locked. The lathe bit is held by the vise on the table. Turn the work at lowest mill RPMs. Kinda backwards but it works for simple stuff.
Once the gears are trimmed to diameter then the teeth can be made in the brass repair area. This mill work is done with a simple fly cutter with an inserted lathe bit. The lathe bit is ground to carve the gear groove space. The shape of the bit is made to fit a nice fresh gear groove space as a gage. See ???
This cutter is a form tool as it does the whole slot. Form tool cutters should be fed very slowly with minimal 3 to 5 thou inch depth per pass. Many passes completely over the gear face are needed to carve each gear groove. That brass which remains is... the tooth. Brass machines beautifully too. Good lathe gears are made of cast iron which lucky for us brazes nicely.
Correct positioning of the repair area is vital when milling the teeth. That is why moleman made the little index gizmo.
I suspect that one cutter bit will work OK for all those gears as they are all the same DP (diametral pitch).
This gear carving is very basic and well worth knowing rather like single-pointing threads on a lathe, a very valuable skill.
09-28-2010, 01:20 AM
Moleman, replying to the pm reply, I'll get some measurements and we'll go from there.
Didn't think of doing what you mentioned in the first paragraph about the mill.
All of the rest you mentioned fills in some gaps when looking at moleman's pics of his Sheldon project.
09-28-2010, 02:51 PM
Try a serpentine belt off a car application, just turn it inside out so the grooves are on the outside. also have seen inside out timing belts used. serp belts are made in many sizes and you can get good used ones in the dumpsters behind Goodyear stores cause they sell alot of them. (I hated working there...)
09-28-2010, 04:52 PM
Thanks wrench !!!
I have heard of using inverted V-belts as a quick fix for a flat belt. The inverted timing or serpentine belt is a cool substitute.
09-29-2010, 12:50 AM
Thanks Wrench, I heard of others using serpentine belts but no one mention turning it over. I was even think of checking a farm supply store and see what they got for farm equipment belts.
Here's few pics of the damaged gears and the rough measurements I got in case they're hard to read in the pic.
Small gear, inside diameter is 1.30" and that cylinder part is 1.87" from the back of the gear to the end.
Large gear, the inside diameter is 1.28"-1.29" and that hub steps up about .5"
And felt like adding a pic of everything in the order it came off the shaft which is in the front.
09-29-2010, 10:26 AM
Coils, those gears look like they'll repair nicely. I made sure to degrease mine, aluminum oxide blast the areas to be brazed, then degreased them on the day I was dropping them off at the welders. I figured a very clean and slightly toothed up surface would only help the braze stick better. The pics are also a great way for you to remember how to put the darn thing back together when the time comes. Because I knew it would be months before I got my lathe back together I reassembled the parts on the spindle, wrapped them in a couple of old towels and put it in a wooden crate for safe keeping.
I did some digging in the garage (just moved) and found the fly cutter.
09-29-2010, 11:06 PM
The pics are also a great way for you to remember how to put the darn thing back together That's exactly what I was thinking, got the one pic with everything in it then three more closer up from one end to the other.
Glad to hear you say they should be good to go, I'd hate to try and find a set of these. :D
I'll also do like you did and take a pic(s) after I get them back from the welder guy.
10-08-2010, 11:48 PM
Got your PM, that's a great idea about making wood holders for shipping. Thanks for the tip.
Update on the gears, well at least one.
My friend talked to the welder today, he got the large one done (maybe both, he wasn't to clear), but there was a minor problem, at least he said it was.
If you look at the pic again of the big gear you see there's some rough casting or pitting, well it was a casting problem, he said there was sand contamination in the metal and when he cleaned it out it went all the way through. So he had to open it up a little to get it cleaned out and be able to repair it.
This will be interesting to see.
10-09-2010, 12:15 AM
Brass braze machines nicely. Removing the occlusions in the cast iron is the way to go before brazing. Turning in a lathe or even a mill will trim the brass repair to proper size.
10-09-2010, 11:17 AM
I didn't think it was that bad, when I looked at it it only appeared to be on the surface so it was kind of a surprise to me when I was told that.