View Full Version : SHORTEND 7.62X54R CHAMBER FOR AK 47.
08-08-2012, 12:13 PM
I HAVE BEEN PLAYING WITHTHE IDEA OF GETTING A HIGHER CAPACITY ROUND OUT OF EXISTING DIES AN REAMERS AN BRASS THAT WILL FIT IN A AK/AR MAG.
I HAVE BEEN ROUGH MEASURING THE 7.62X54R ROUND AND SAW THAT AT AROUND 35MM OR SO THE OD ON X54R BRASS IS ABOUT .477 THE SAME AS THE CASE HEAD OF THE 6.5 SWEDE THAT MRTANK HAD SPOKE OF ON A DIFFERANT THREAD. THE START OF THE SWEDE NECK WERE IT NECKS DOWN IS SHOWN AS .435 VS .456 SO THIS WILL NEED TO BE FIRE FORMED.
ANY WAY HERE IS A POSSABLE WAY TO USE A SHORTEND CHAMBER
7.62X54R BARREL AN SHORTEND DIES TO MAKE A AK/AR LENGTH ROUND WITH MORE CASE CAPACITY THAN A 223 OR X39. THE SAME SHOULD HOLD TRUE FOR THE 6.5X54R BARREL IF ONE COULD FIND ONE.
ANY ONE GOT A ROUGH BORE MOSIN BARREL THEY WANT TO CONTRIBUTE???
IM LOOKING FOR OTHER CASES THAT WOULD BE USABLE IF CUT DOWN TO AROUND 35-41 MM. THERE IS A 6.5MMX51 SWEDE THAT USES 308 TYPE BRASS TO MAKE SHORT ACTION LESS POWDER CAPACITY VARIANT AN IS WHAT GAVE ME THE IDEA OF FINDING A ROUND THAT WAS THE RIGHT LENGTH A 1.5" OR SO.
HERE ARE MY THOUGHTS FROM THE 6MM BEGGS THREAD PUT HERE TO START AN NEW THREAD.
HMMMM WITH A .479 BASE IF THE END OF A 7.62X54R CHAMBER WAS CUT OFF AN X54R DIES WERE SHORTEND ACCORDINGLY AN USING 6.5 BRASS ONE COULD GET A CASE WITH A OVERALL LENGTH OF ABOUT 38 TO 44MM OR SOME WERE BETWEEN A X39 CASE AN A 223 CASE. THIS WOULD GIVE A LARGER CAPACITY 310 BORE AK ROUND THAT WOULD HAVE CONSIDERABLE TAPER AN LIKELY WOULD WORK WITH THE CURVE OF A AK MAG. CANT SAY AS TO IF THEY WILL WORK WITHT HE EXTRA OD. IT WULD BE LIKE A 30 BENCHREST MAGNUM. NOW THE 7.62X54 HAS ALOT OF NECK BUT THAT WONT HURT BUT IT DOES EAT UP ROOM FOR POWDER.
NOW WERE TALKING 6MM ROUND OR MAYBE 6.5MM IN THIS THREAD SO HOW DOES APPLY??? WELL THERE IS A 6.5MMX54R ROUND OUT THERE THAT IS A NECKED DOWN 7.62X54R SO IT WOULD LIKLEY HAVE THE SAME TAPER. IF A GUY HADCOULD FIND A BARREL AN DIES HE COULD CUT THE BREACH DOWN UNTIL THE CHAMBER WAS .479 OR SO (SAME AS A 6.5 SWEDE BRASS OR ABNY OTHER BRASS THAT HAS A .479 BASE. IM STILL LOOKING AT OTHER ROUNDS) TRIM THE DIES TO MATCH AN RUN 6.5 SWEDE THROUGH THEM LIKELY HAVE TO FIRE FORM AN YOU WOULD HAVE A PRETTY HOT AK/AR LENGTH ROUND THAT WOULD HAVE CASE CAPACITY LARGER THAN A GRENDAL OR IF ..308 0R .31I BORE IS YOUR CHOICE A 7.62X39 OR SO MAGNUM WITH A FAIT AMOUNT OF CASE TAPER. YEA ITS ALOT OF SCREWING AROUND BUT ITS LIKLEY DOABLE CHEAP ESPECAILY ON A .7.62X39 MOSIN TAKE OFF BARREL AN SOME CHEAP LEE DIES CUT DOWN.
08-09-2012, 11:48 AM
OK IM SURE ALL THAT WAS CONFUSING WITH MISS SPELLED WORDS AN CAPS AN NO PICTURES.
HERE IS WHAT I THINK YOU CAN GET WITH A CUT CHAMBER SWEDE BRASS AN SHORTEND 7.62X54 DIES. ITS A BIG CASE 7.62X39 OR 7.62X39 MAG OR 7.62X54R UNIMPROVED OR A 7.62X54R SHORT-6.5 SWEDE. OR 1BIGGUNS SUPER CHEAP ASS 7.62X39 EXPRESS THUNDER GOD EXPRESS. ;)
SCREW IT THE SITE WONT LET ME UP LOAD ANY THJING TODAY WTF???
ILL POST PICTURES WHEN I CAN GET IT TO WORK.
08-09-2012, 03:21 PM
wtf is this when im downloading a picture??
Invalid Post specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator
every time i get were I can post pics again somehting changes ????????
08-09-2012, 03:29 PM
tryin to post a picture
now i get this.
Upload of file failed.
differant crap every up load attempt.
08-09-2012, 03:43 PM
well im trying fire fox
now in getting this
The Dimension limits for this filetype are 1200 x 1200. We were unable to resize your file so you will need to do so manually and upload it again. Your file is currently 1280 x 1024.
wtf same camera an that my avatir was taken with as well as lots of other photos here. ( camera) the pic is under 2mb differant issue every time an ive tried a differant camera an picture.??????? I could just build the dam gun faster.
08-10-2012, 02:55 AM
A rimless larger caliber round does sound interesting.
The 6.5 swede has base diameter of 12.2mm. The 45 long colt, 454 Casual and 460 S&W magnum also have a base diameter of 12.2mm.
The 460 S&W magnum is longer than the shoulder on the 6.5x55 swede brass so it would need a little more work. The 454 Casual and 45 Long Colt could be make out of cut down brass.
454 dies and the 6.5 swede shell holder would give you a neat 454 causal rimless. Overall length on the 454 Causal is 1.77", on the 460 S&W magnum it is 2.290"
Some of the hotter 460 S&W magnum loads are higher pressure than what I would feel comfortable with.
Since it is a straight walled case could just shorten 460 S&W magnum dies to give you a overall length that will work in the magazine.
08-10-2012, 10:01 AM
HMMMM THAT WOULD OK.
WILLIE DID A 460 S&W ON A SAIGA 410 AN THERE IS A THRAEAD. HE TREADED A TRUNION TO TAKE A SCREW IN BARREL. THE MAN HAS A LOT OF SKILL.
THE BARREL PIN GETS REALLY CLOSE TO OR IN THE CHAMBER ON SOME OF THE BIGGER CASED STRAIGHT WALL LOADS.
THE 444 MARLIN CAN BE DONE RIMLESS AS WELL WITH CUT DOWN 30-06 OR BLOWN STRAIGHT 308 BRASS. IM SURE IS BETTTER TAPERED VARIANT COULD BE DONE ON A SWEDE CASE.
KEEP IN MIND THAT ANY STRAIGHT CASE WILL NEED TO HEAD SPACE ON THE CASE MOUTH AN THAT MEANS YOU NEED TO TRIM BRASS TO BE PERFECT.
I HAVE A BARREL TURNED AN PROFILED IN .430 ( 44MAG OR 444MARLIN BORE) I HAVE NEVER CHAMBERED IT. THERE ARE PLANS FOR A 444????? THAT IS BASICALY A 1.5" 444 MARLIN OR A REALLY LONG RIMLESS 44 MAG. IT WOULD USE 308 BRASS AN FIT A AK MAG.
SINCE THE AK IS NOT MAG WELL LENGTH RESTRICTED THERE IS NO REAL NEED TO BE STUCK WITH A SHORT ROUND.
IF YOUR GOING TO BE DOING A RIMMLESS 460 OR ANY OTHER ROUND YOU WILL BE HAND LOADING SO PRESSURE IS NOT A HUGE ISSUE.
I SORT OF QUIT ON MY IDEAS WHEN THE 450 BUSH MASTER CAME OUT. EVEN CANCLED A REAMER ORDER.
08-10-2012, 01:59 PM
There are some wildcats of .454. there are dies on ebay right not for 22-454. Though the shoulder is quite sharp. Could do a bottle neck round based on 6.5 Swede and necked down to .430". Would help with the head space and probably help with feeding. Necked down to 357 or 375 could be interesting also. I wonder if shortened .375 H&H Magnum dies would work. I will have to look into that.
08-10-2012, 09:57 PM
Im not sure what a 22-454 will do that a 220 russian or 22ppc or a 22ar.
if you want to use swede brass you might try to size some in a bench rest die or possably a trim die. I have a 308x1.5 trim die an I may get some swede brass to play with.
the french round in 30 cal an the 7x54 fininih has a bigger base yet than swede coming in a .480
the ultimate wild cat in a AK length mag well is likely a necked down 30rar or possably a reworked WSSM case. keep in mind there is only so much room between the trunion lugs. there are WSSM AR,s out there as well a Ruger Mini 30,s im not sure what the AK will hold. keep in mind its pretty easy to just do a 308 win conversion an not have to buy anything special. The 6.5 swede can be done as well. HC POKIE did one if im not mistaken. im looking at the round but a 260 remington is going to do about the same thing an I have the barrel.
08-10-2012, 10:54 PM
SCRATH THE 30 RAR FOR NOW THERE IS NO AMMO AN HAS NEVER BEEN ANY BRASS APARENTLY TYPICAL REMINGTON ITRODUCE A ROUND AN THEN FAIL TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON IT OR SUPORT IT. ANY ONE SEEN ANY 6.8SPC REMINGTONS LATELY???
i CAN MAKE BRASS FROM A 284 CASE EVEN THOUGH REMINGTON USES SOME ODD BALL RIM DIA THAT THERE ARE NO SHELL HOLDERD FOR. THEY DO SOME STUPID CRAP. A 6.5 OR 6MM WOULD SELL ALL DAY LONG BUT THEY JUST WONT BUILD IT .
08-12-2012, 06:25 PM
trying to see if the picture thing is working yet
nope still dont work ;(
08-12-2012, 06:58 PM
WELL TRY THIS. HOLLY CRAP FINALY AFTER 20 TRIES ON THE SAME PICTURE.
ANY WAY HERE IS WHAT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET WITH A SHORTEND
54R CHAMBER AN SHORTENED DIES AN SWEDE BRASS. LIKELY WILL HAVE TO FIRE FORM THE BRASS AS WELL.
THE CASE IS MUCH BIGGER BUT THE THE NECK IS REALLY LONG ALSO . NO IDEA WHAT YOU WOULD GAIN BUT IT WOULD A INTERESTING PROJECT.
ANY WAY ITS INTERESTING AN THE ROUNDS MIGHT WORK IN A STANDARD AK MAG AT LEAST THE TAPER IS ABOUT THE SAME.
08-17-2012, 11:40 AM
After rereading your post here, a different case to ponder over, 35rem. The head will fit the boldt, can be forms to fit the shape you want. just a idea. Muttman
08-17-2012, 03:02 PM
35 remington has a .457" base so Im not sure what It form into that would be usefull??
i have looked at that round as is for a AK build an it would work fine. i ended up getting a 358 reamer an figured since I had to reload any way id go that route an reform 7.62x51 nato brass or 308.
Im not sure what would be gained if you made a 1.5" case out of that round in 30 cal. you might pick up a few grains of capacity over the x39 case but there is already a 308 barnes an 30BR round out there.
I dont think the 35 culd be used in x54 chamber cut down?
what was your Idea??
08-18-2012, 02:53 AM
That reminds me there is the Czech 7.62x45. Same case head as the 7.62x39, the over all length is close to .223, though there is some variance depending on where you get your information. It necked down to 7mm 6.5mm or 6mm would be interesting.
08-19-2012, 02:14 PM
the jap round is the same head as well but the case is much longer.
IMO THE QUESTION IS WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO GAIN WHEN DOING A WILD CAT??
IT EITHER NEEDS TO BE MORE ACCURACY OR POWER OR CHEAPER TO SHOOT OR FIT A EXISTING GUNS RESTRICTUIONS.
IF YOUR GOING TO DO A AK BUILD THE MAG WELL IS RESTICTED ONKY IF YOU STICK WITH FACTORY MAGS. IF YOUR NOT GOING TO STAY WITH THEM THEN THERE ARE A LOT OF ALREADY GOOD ROUNDS OUT THERE WITH DIES ALREADY MADE. THE 308 WIN PARENT BRASS IS GOING TO DO PRETTY MUCH ANY THING YOU WILL EVER NEED IN ONE FORM OR THE OTHER. THE BRASS IS CHEAP AN ALL THAT. USING A OBSCURE HARD TO GET ROUND FOR A BRASS SOURCE THAT WILL NOT GAIN YOU ANYHTING IS NOT A GOOD WAY TO GO.
I PROPOSED THE 1.5"- 54R BECASUE IT COULD BE DONE POSSABLY WITH A CHEAP EXISTING BARREL CUT DOWN AT THE CHAMBER MODIFED CHEAP TO GET DIES AN WOULD POSSABLY USE 6.5X55 BRASS . THE ROUND WOULD LIKEY GIVE YOU A INCREASE IN CASE CAPAICATY AN A POWER GAIN IN A STANDARD MAG LENGTH.
I DONT LIKE THE ROUND FOR A COUPLE REASONS THE MAIN ONE IS THE THE THROAT ANGLE IS NOT SHARP ENOUGH AN THE NECK IS WAY TO LONG. THIS TAKES AWAY LOTS OF CASE CAPACITY. ITS LIKELY A VERY DOAPLE ROUND IT WOULD CAST ABOUT $20 FOR A 7.62X54 SIZING DIE AN TAKE A FEW MINUTES WITH CUT OFF WHEEL IN A DIEW GRINDER TO CUT IT DOWN TO SEE IF THE BARASS WOULD FORM OK OR NOT. IM BETTING THE BRASS WOULD NEED TO BE FIRE FORMED BUT IT LIKELY COULD BE DONE. MY GUESS IS IF THE ROUND CAN BE DONE IT WOULD GIVE YOU ABOUT 2500 FPS WITH A 125 GRAIN BULLET ( JUST A GUESS IT MIGHT BE MORE)
TO SEE WHAT HE ROUND WOULD LOOK LIKE TAKE A X54R CASE AN REMOVE THE BOTTOM UNTILL YOU GET TO ABOUT 1.50" LONG AN ENVISION A RIM ON THE END.
NOW IF ONE TOOK A 6.5 CASE AN MADE A WHOLE NEW ROUND THAT LOOKED LIKE A 30 BR OR EVEN A 6MM BR BUT JUST A LITTEL BIGGER OD IT WOULD GIVE YOU A PRETTY COOL WILD CAT. YOU MIGHT GAIN A GRAIN OR TWO OVER THE BENCH REST OR BARNES ROUND BUT IT WOULD TAKE A $135 FINISH REAMER, AN A CUSTOM DIE SET.
08-22-2012, 02:17 PM
Bg, I see your point. The idea for me was to use the neck down 35 rem case to make a 6 or 7.62 mm boldt gun. The hole thing started for me with the 9x54r from way back. I need to rethunk what I want to gain. Muttman