12GA FH--Hairy Shotgun/Rifle--

[1biggun]

COOLSTUFF AND BY THE WAY WELCOME TO GUNCO. fINALLY A NEWBIE WITH COOL STUFF TO TALK ABOUT!!!!
DAMM THAT H&R CAN BE DONE PRETTY CHEAP. HMM I HAVE ONE OF THOSE GUNS TOO, AND IT WOULDNT HURT TO CHAMBER IT OUT TO 3.5
WERENT SOME OF YOU GUYS WORKING WITH 20 AND 28GUAGE STUFF AS WELL???

Like in NEF 3.5" plastic case, 600gr slug at almost 2100 fps. 15k psi load.
In savage with long brass case 600gr at 3000 fps using full loads
of slow rifle powder. About 30k psi load. We had some loads pressure tested
to confirm that our velocity and pressure formulas are accurate. Ed

MAN THOSE SPECKS ARE AWSOME, I LIKE THE 3.5 PLASTIC CASE LOAD AS IT IS ALL AVALIABLE. WHAT KIND OF ACCURACY HAVE YOU GOTTEN? I WANT TO PULL ONE OF THOSE OUT OF THE TRUCK THE NEXT TIME I GO PRAIRRE DOG HUNTING LOL 2100 FPS SHOULD BE GOOD FOR AT LEAST 100 YARDS IF THE ACURACY IS THERE A LOT MORE.

[hubel458]

Many have used various handloads and factory loads
in NEF with scopes and they get 2-4" groups at 100yds.
Usually I get 2-3' at 50 yds with peep sights and bad
eyes with Savage and NEF.There are slugs from light to
heavy you can use, even some saboted, that get real
good speed with our loads. One gun we set up was a 1887
Win 12ga levergun replica with long heavy barrel. I got one
oz Brenekke up to 2700 in it.Here's pic.Ed

[hcpookie]

Welcome, Ed! Nice to see you over here.

Did you ever find a good source for the plastic hulls? I have a buddy who is former LEO and he said the only local/state LE agency in VA that would have them would be the state police, and they have no local office that interacts with the bomb disposal unit. I think I'll be stuck with the converted .50 BMG cases no matter what.

However, I've been so busy with other projects that I can't even consider building one of these until I get some things cleared off the table. This is probably a "next year" project, maybe a 2010 project for me!

[1biggun]

have you done any builds with a rifled barrel?. Are there rifled blanks that are heavy enough to handel the long brass loads?
Do these loads use a wad or anything or is the slug just seated down on the powder?
has anyone tried a muzzel brake on one or a ported barrel?

I like the lever gun very nice.

[hubel458]

I get plastic cases from Precision Reloading and Ballistic products,
in 12ga, 10 ga, and 8 ga for our 8GA FH.

The Nef and Savage are rifled. The 1887 is smooth. I have rifled barrels to
try later on a Mossberg 695, on a Mauser 12ga, and others.My two real big
big blasters, with my 700HE belted case have rifled. We get heavy rifled 12ga
blanks from Pacnor Barrels. As big as you want. The barrel on Savage is 1.5"
at breech. I use wads to take up space with faster powders. Don't want no
airspace. My slow powder(WC-860-RL25-etc) loads in long case in Savage
fill the case. My Savage is 23 lbs so it don't need a brake. Even with
max loads with 600gr over 3300 fps.The levergun and NEf
are 15lbs. We are getting 3.5" heavy base cases made at RMC to test
to see how high they can go and still extract. Top loads in long brass case
is in Rob's big Borchardt falling block action he built one on. 1000 gr at 3100.
The 12GA From Hell idea was his to start with and the Borchardt is designed
BMG size cases and BMG pressures. I limit Savage to 35,000 psi, limit NEF
to about 20,000, same for the 1887. The 600gr slug I use a lot and like very
much is a 600gr hardened Dixie slug. It is hard enough to take high
velocities.Here is picture of original Savage barrel and heavy one we used.
Below is 2 pics of different slugs we've shot.Ed

[1biggun]

Damm I had a chance to buy a mauser shot gun a couple years ago and passed on it.
I would like to have one just for thew excuse me while I wip this out factor. I am in a shotgun pistol only zone for deer so it would be legal to hunt with one in my back yard. i may have to invest in a 3.5" reamer.
It appears to me that if one has a proven strong shot gun, that even a 3" shell could be greatly improved upon. has any one done some heavy loads for a 3" shell in the NEF type guns??

[hubel458]

Yes we've improved the 3" plastic loads in the NEF. These are for modern, medium
to heavy barrels. With 600gr Dixie in 3" plastic using 90 gr of IMR SR4759
we get 1800 in 24" barrel. If 30 inch barrel like at test lab where we had
pressures test, you get over 1900 fps. Peak pressures averaged 14,700 psi,
which is similiar to hopped up factory magnum loads using shotgun powder
and getting 400 fps less velocity.Another powder used is IMR 4227. These two
plus VV N110 are fast rifle powders, but still much slower than shotgun
powders, and can be ignited with 600 gr slugs or heavier using regular shotgun
magnum primers. Other riifle powders will not ignite reliably with shotgun primers.
Our long case we made has bmg primers and will fire off any powder no matter
how slow the powder is. Here is picture of BMG case with rim turn off and
threaded to take the 12ga size rim pieces shown, Then cases fireformed and
you see finished cases with slugs also.Ed

[1biggun]

Hubel 458 I found your stuff on the other site.(a couple years worth). man you guys have done some work in working up loads and working out the kinks as far as casings ect. I havent read it all yet but will in the next day or so. after I digest it all I am sure to have some questions. I hope you move this discussion down to the fireams area of this sight as many dont come up here as much due to all the arguing and weird stuff lately. I am sure that there are many here that will find your builds very interisting.

[1biggun]

OK IM SITTING HERE WITH A 5OBMG ROUND AND A NEF RIFLE. THE BARREL ON IT IS CURRENTLY 45-70 IT IS A HANDI RIFLE SB2.
MY QUESTION IS WILL THIS RECIVER/ACTION ACCEPT A FACTORY BARREL FROM NEF HEAVY ENOUGH TO BUILD A 3.5" 12G FH???? OR DO I NEED TO BUY THE PARDNER 10 GUAGE FRAME IN A 12 GUAGE?? IF THE HANDI RIFLE FRAME WILL NOT WORK WHAT ARE ITS MAXIMUM SAFE CAPAPILTYS IN A 3.5 12 GUAGE???

[hubel458]

You should get the SB2 shotgun frame as it has bigger firing pin.
A 12ga Ultra barrel could be fitted to yours, but I feel a separate
gun is better, as you should weight it with all you can add in the butt.
All SB2s are alloy and heatreated, and the shotguns that are part of
the SB2 heatreated bunch are the 12ga Ultra heavy barrel and the
SB2 10 gauges. Don't use any of the SB1 frames. My 12ga Ultra
was only 225 bucks and it has held the loads ok. Like the 600 gr above
we started at 70 gr and worked up to 90gr in 3" plastic. and shot long
brass cases with 600 gr at 2500. It is still tight. The 12ga testing has
led to 10 gauge testing in a NEF, a 8GA FH on a Enfield bolt action,
a 28GA FH, plus my work started years ago on my wildcat
585HE and 700HE belted cases...Ed