12GA FH--Hairy Shotgun/Rifle--

[TRX]

Originally Posted by muttman

- this is a slug gun in 50 cal?
- is the barrel rifled or the slug?

.50? We don't need no steenkeeng .50!

Robgunbuilder, Ed Hubel, and a gang of more-than-slightly demented gunheads over on the Accurate Reloading forum are building .720 caliber rifles. The ATF is okay with that, since they're legally shotguns. In the beginning they were using modified BMG brass, blown out straight, and with a rim added. They got RMC to make a run of custom "FH" brass, and Ed's been playing with plastic cases too.

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According to the ATF, anything over .50 is verboten. Unless it's a pre-existing cartridge like the .50-110 (.512 diameter) or .700 Nitro, which are grandfathered in. And they've ruled that rifled barrels on shotguns are okay, and still shotguns. And that even if you rechamber a shotgun to shoot a metallic cartridge, it's still a shotgun as long as it still shoots shotgun shells. None of which is particularly consistent with the letter of GCA '68, but we're talking bureaucrats here, not gunheads.

So, the 12gaFH is just like a .50 BMG. Except it's BIGGER! BWA-HA-HAAA! <evil laughter ensues>

[muttman]

thank's
now I know what I need to start looking for. muttman

[hubel458]

The laws that clarify over 50 cal exemptions is Title 18-GCA 86. Shotgun
calibers exempt, existing in 86 exempt like 577NE, 600NE, etc, and those that
we ask ATF for an exemption for sporting use, which I did for my
585HE and 700HE, which many others like SSK, AHR etc have done
for their cases. And they go by .500" bore size so that all 50cals, with groove
diameter of .512" or less are not DDs.

Some have asked if the guy who made above
bolt action 8ga does them for others, no he only
did one for himself, and isn't a manufacturer.

Here is picture of a cast .504" slug BPI 12ga sabot
a guy made a few for me and it has good accuracy with
our slower powder loads, with the sabot working ok.
Slug is 440 gr and hard alloy cast with decent
meplat for good penetration.But it isn't too blunt
so it has good longer range capabilities when you
get the speed behind it. Soon be the deer season and
guys are still hunting for their ideal 12ga sabot/slug
setup for loading their own.BPI is supposed to have
a new sabot this year..Ed

[hcpookie]

What kind of accuracy do those produce? Do these the sabots fit tighter so as to grip the slug better?

[hubel458]

The .504" makes sabot fit barrel tighter than .500".
The .504" lead slug I show for using in 12ga sabots is
one cast for using in .500" cases like my 499HE, by
sizing it after casting. Tried it at the .504" diameter and
it works in the sabot also. So it does double duty,
unsized 12ga sabot, sized and lubed in .500" use.

Some like short cases in big calibers, and have put up
various ideas. First picture is 12ga brass cases, two
2" long and other 2.25". Cases made by shortening
our cases we made by putting rims on bmg brass.
These can be used in Savage 210 and feed from mag
box. Can use 2.5" Magtech brass shortened so case
and protruding slug will be 2.7" overall and feed from
magazines of Savage & Mossy bolt guns. With 2.25" case
you can get 600gr to 1800 at least.Ed

[TRX]

Without a ruler handy, those look an awful lot like .38 Super cartridges! Just not quite enough extractor groove around the semi-rim, though.

[hubel458]

20 gauge-- Fired factory 3.5" plastic cased Hastings 395 gr
locked on sabot slug in 20ga with 30 inch barrel and
got 1900 plus fps. Same sabot slug in RMC 3.5" brass case
with shotgun primer, got 2500 fps. Case bases didn't
expand. Load of 150gr RE17 slow enough getting to
peak pressures is easy on cases. Dies work with
both case types.Ed

[hubel458]

Some more 20ga- 490gr slug in RMC 3.5" brass case
with shotgun primer, got 2400+ fps. Cases very slight
base expansion. About .001" above base.
Load of 180gr RE17, shotgun primer.Ed

Got asked about the Taylor KO factor, some of our
cases.Max loads for my guns/cases combos.Ed

4bore in my falling block-- 1600gr at 2500 - 571 KO
700HE in my bolt gun----- 1000gr at 3200- 457 KO
12GA FH in my Savage----1000gr at 2500- 357 KO
585HE in my bolt gun------750gr at 2800-- 300 KO
577 trex comparison-------750gr at 2600--278 KO
700NE comparison --------1000gr at 2000- 295 KO

[hubel458]

20ga testing- 600gr slug in RMC 3.5" brass case
with shotgun primer, 2300 fps. Very slight
case expansion above base.
Another load style- 12 number 1 buckshot,
about 510 gr worth, 2000. Glued a 20ga
card in the brass case over the shot.
Few more guys coming, having fun
shooting the 4bore this summer. Ed

[hubel458]

There are fellas who have and are planning on
doing hopped up loads and cases in the Greener GP,
Martini type action. Here is picture of one done couple
years ago by Aussie guy on NitroExpress forums. They
need heavy barrel in place of original. It has a rifled
Pacnor barrel and weighs about 9 lbs. In my measuring an
action here, they will feed a 3" brass case with a protruding
slug, like the cast Dixie or the Henson jkt slugs.
I like the looks of these old classic guns. And they are
strong enough with 3" RMC brass to get 730gr slug to
2000 fps...Ed