some idiot shooting fire fighters

[will6970]

Originally Posted by tanvil

Beating an old lady to death SHOULD have gotten him a penalty of death.

Had the sick sob been fried or hung for his first heinous crime, these men would be home with their families tonight.

Yeah. So much bleeding heart liberal ideas about the death penalty and prisoner reform.

[1biggun]

How would anybody know what chance they would have had? reports I read said SWAT had to rescue other pined down fireman. 1 of the men killed was also a police officer why wasn't he armed? the cop was likely the intended target to begin with.

[FyredUp]

Originally Posted by 1biggun

How would anybody know what chance they would have had? reports I read said SWAT had to rescue other pined down fireman. 1 of the men killed was also a police officer why wasn't he armed? the cop was likely the intended target to begin with.

The 2 that were killed, according to reports on firefighter forums, were shot almost immediately upon exiting their vehicle. The 2 killed were volunteer firefighters one of whom worked as a police officer, and the other worked as a dispatcher. When they were killed they were acting as volunteer firefighters. Hence the officer would likely not be armed.

If you listen to the radio transmissions one firefighter that was shot in the leg and back managed to escape before police arrived on scene with the aid of neighbors and his POV.

I was opposed to arming firefighters prior to this incident and I am still opposed to it now. Further, if they were armed how would ou propose they carry their weapons? In a coat pocket where it could be exposed to high heat? Or under their turnout gear where it would be virtually inaccessible? Sorry, it just is impractical and frankly not our job. Other than wack jobs like tis that set this up to kill firefighters we are still for the most part seen as the good guys and once it is known we are carrying guns on duty that attitude would change. That may be okay in your mind, but that goodwill makes it much easier for us to do our job most days.

[1biggun]

HMMMM MAYBE IN THE TRUCK, CAR, IS THERE NOT A GUY THAT STAYS OUT SIDE AN DIRECTS THINGS?????? AN IF THE HEAT IS SO MUCH THAT THE GUN OR AMMO IS GOING TO BE COMPROMISED WHILE CARRING THEN THE GUY CARRING IT WILL NO CARE ANY MORE HE WILL BE DEAD. IM NOT DISAGREANMNG THAT CARRING ON YOUR PERSON WOULD HAVE A LOT OF ISSUES IM THINKING MORE IN THE TRUCK SECURED SIME WERE. IM SURE THERE IS NO ONE EASY ANSMWER HERE AN IM NOT TRYOUNG TO SLAM YOU OR ARGUE THIS NEEDS TO BE A CALM DISCUSSION

THE REPORTS I READ WERE SWAT HAD TO ENGAGE THE SHOOTER TO FREE THE SURVIVING AN THAT THE ONE COP WAS A LUTNENATE OR SOME THING LIKE THAT. ??????????? THEN WHEN CAN YOU BELIEAVE THE MEDIA ??????????

I HAVENT READ MUCH ABOUT THIS SO ILL BOW OUT OF THE CONVERSATON FOR NOW UNTILL I KNOW REAL FACTS. .

I WILL SAY THAT IMO YOU GUYS DEAL WITH NUTS WAY TO OFTEN AN YOU SHOULD NOT BE GETTING AMBUSHED WITH NO PROTECTION OR HELP. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME FIREFIGHTERS HAVE BEEN AMBUSHED. I DO UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERNS BUT ARSON IS A CRIME AN YOU REPORT TO A LOT OF CRIME SCENES AS AS THE FIRST RESPONDER. AS APARENTY THESE GUYS DID. IF THERE WERE TRAINED LEOS INM THE MIX OF FIRE FIGTHERS HER IS WOULD SEEM THAT THAT THERE TRAININFG COULD BE USED FOR PROTECTION OR AT LEAST THE ABALITY TO GET A ARM FROM A TRUCK ETC. AFTER ALL THERE ALSO LEOS . ?????? MY GUT TELLS ME THUS KILLER HAD A BEEF WITH THE COPS AN KNEW THEY WOULD BE RESPONDING TO THIS FIRE.

There are two kinds of people, those that are prepared, and those that suffer.

NOT SURE HOW THEY COULD HAVE BEEN BUT THEY WERE NOT PREPARED FOR THIS COWARD AN MAY THEY RIP. THIS STUFF PISSES ME OFF THAT MEN THERE TO DO ONLY GOOD WERE KILLED THIS WAY. THIS SHOULD NOT BE HAPPENNIG IN AMERICA


THIS GUY SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN LET OUT AN AMERICAS SOFT ON CRIME AN EVERY THING ELSE IS THE PROBLEM NOT THE GUNS. MY HEART GOES OUT TO THERE FAIMLYS ON THIS CHRISTMAS DAY.

[FyredUp]

1biggun,

The points you are missing in my post was the police officer that was killed wasn't on duty as a police officer, he responded in as a member of the local volunteer fire department. In other words he was a firefighter on that call, not a cop. Number 2, listen to the radio transmissions of that incident and the fact is one of the most severely wounded with a shot to the leg and on the back got away with the help of neighbors. He REPEATEDLY asked where the police were and was told REPEATEDLY to stand by. Until he finally said he was going to use his own vehicle to escape.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Finally, I do not want firefighters looked upon a quasi-law enforcement officers with guns. I see far more problems coming from that than I see good. What would you have the firefighters have on the rig? A pistol? A long gun in a rack like cops have? What? Sorry NO! That is not who we are.

[1biggun]

i UNDER STAND ALL YOUR CONCERNS . BUT THE FACT IS TWO ALSO LEOS THAT HAVE HAD LEO TRAINING WERE AMBUSHED WHILE VOLUNTERING . WHAT MAKES THIS EVEN MORE INTERESTING IS THEY WERE THERE WITH THERE OWN VEHICLES. I DO FIND IT ODD THAT THAT THERE SEVERAL POLICE PEIPLE TERE IN THERE OWN VEHICLES???????? THAT WERE COMPOLETLY UNARMED. SEEMS TO ME THAT A LEO WOULD AT LEAST HAVE ARM IN HIS VEHICLE.

I TOOK THE TIME TO READ A FEW OF THE MEDIA REPORTS AN THERE ALL OF OVER THE PLACE AS TO WHAT HAPPENED . IM SURE YOUR FOLLOWING THIS MORE THAN I.

I JUST FEEL THAT BECAUSE FIREMEN DO MORE THAN PUT OUT FIRES THAT AN RESPOND TO ALL KINDS OF CALLS EVEN SOME THAT ARE ANIMAL RELATED THAT THEY WOULD HAVE SOME PROTECTION. EMTS,S BING THE ONES ID BE MOST CONCERNED ABOUT. IF I WAS A LEO AN A VOLONTER FM ID HAVE A WEAPON IN MY CAR AT ALL TIMES PERIOD.

IM SURE IN THIS CASE THERE WAS LITTTLE THEY COULD HAVE DONE BUT MAYBE IF BEOPLE KNEW THEY WERE AREMS MAYBE THEY WOULD NOT BE SUCH A TARGET.

ITS GETTING WERE PEOLE FEELT HERE SOULD BE ZERO GUNS OR THAT EVER ONES NEEDS TO BE ARMED TO THE TEETH NEITHER IS A SITUATION ID WANT.

ITS A SHITTY DEAL ALL AROUND IMO. WHATS NEXT POLICE HAVE TO RESPOND FIRST TO EVERY FIRE ???? ARMED ESCORTS O FOR FIRE FIGTHERS?????????????

[Pryotex]

As said before, If he was a convicted felon, how did he get a gun, Maybe Hilary did a straw purchase to fuel her anti gun crap.

[Plan B]

Originally Posted by tanvil

Beating an old lady to death SHOULD have gotten him a penalty of death.

Had the sick sob been fried or hung for his first heinous crime, these men would be home with their families tonight.

The people that paroled someone who beat his own grandmother to death should be in prison!

[Tommo]

+1 for imprisoning the parole board!

[FyredUp]

1biggun,

One that was killed was an LEO, the other was a dispatcher. I am not demeaning dispatchers as I was one myself for a short time, but odds are he had absolutely zero LEO training. Many disaptchers are civilians and have no police, fire or ems training.