WHAT WOULD MLK SAY ABOUT THIS???
I WAS HAVING A PRETTY CALM DISCUSSION WITH A FRIEND OF MINE TODAY WO IS ALSO BLACK AN ID DESCRIBE AS MIDDLE OF THE ROAD IN HIS POLITICAL VIEWS. AN THE SUBJECT OF RACAL DIFFERANCES IN HOW GUNS WERE USED IN MUDERS AN HE POINTED OUT THAT FROM WHAT HE HAD NOTED MOST MURDERS HE HAD HEAR ABOUT ONTHE NEWS WERE BLACK MEN KILLING BLACK MEN. I TOLD HIM IT DID SEEM THAT WAY AN ASKED HIM HIS VIEWS AN HE SAID TO MUCH GANG CULTURE AN BEING BROUGHT UP THE IF SOME ONE CROSSES YOU YOU KILL HIM.
I DID A LITTLE LOOKING AROUND AN HERE ARE AFEW ARTICLES WITH REALLY SHOCKING NUMBERS OF WHAT BLACK ON BLACK KILLINGS AMOUNTED TO...
ILL BE HONEST I WAS SUPPRISED TO SEE THAT SUCH A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF AMERICANS WERE RESPONSABLE FOR SUCH A LARGE AMOUNT OF HOMICIDES .
ON MLK DAY I WONDER WHAT HE WOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT BLAKS KILLING SO MANY BLACKS.
LETS NOT MAKE THIS A RACIAL ATTACK BUT A DISCUSSION AS TO WHAT LEADS TO THE MENTALITY OF THE BLACK COMMUNINTY TO SEEK GUNS AS THE SOLUTION .
SO MR OBAMA IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERANCE AN REDUCE GUN VIOLANCE HAVE ALL YOUR SHRINKS AN DOCTORS AN EXPERTS FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE IT SO BLACKS FEEL THE NEED TO KILL EACH OTHER. IS IT BECAUSE THERE DESCRIMINTTED , POOR, THE CULTURE THERE RAISED IN , RAP? YOU WANT TO FIX SOME THING FIX THE REASON ITS HAPPENING !!!!!!!!!!!! I THINK MLK WOULD HAVE BEEN DISCUSTED
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Editor's note: David Frum, a CNN contributor, is a contributing editor at Newsweek and The Daily Beast. He is the author of eight books, including a new novel, "Patriots," and a post-election e-book, "Why Romney Lost." Frum was a special assistant to President George W. Bush from 2001 to 2002.
(CNN) -- Massacres such as Newtown are horrifying and heart-rending. They are also nothing like the typical American gun murder.
The typical murder has one victim, not many. The typical murder is committed with a handgun, not a rifle. And in the typical murder, both the perpetrator and the victim are young black men. Blacks are six times as likely as whites to be the victim of a homicide. Blacks are seven times as likely to commit a homicide.The horrifying toll of gun violence on black America explains why black Americans are so much more likely than whites to favor gun control.
David FrumConversely, fears of being victimized by violence explain why so many white Americans -- especially older and more conservative white Americans -- insist on the right to bear arms in self-protection. They see gun violence as something that impinges on them from the outside. They don't blame guns for gun violence. They blame a particular subset of the population. And they don't see why they should lose their right because some subset of the population abuses theirs.
A writer I greatly admire, Rod Dreher, an independent-minded conservative, gives voice to such feelings in an article posted this weekend on the American Conservative website. Dreher expresses himself forcefully and frankly. That frankness should be welcomed, because the more clearly a mistaken idea is put, the faster we can reach a better understanding.
"Yesterday the Baton Rouge Advocate published a lengthy analysis of the 2012 murder stats in the city. Take a look at this PDF of one of the inside pages.[COLOR="Red"] Last year, 83 people died by homicide in Baton Rouge. Of that number, 87% were black, and 87% were male. Two-thirds had been in trouble with the law before, and one-third had been in trouble with the law for drugs. The median age of victims: 26.
"Of the perpetrators, the median age was 22. Get this: 96% of them were black, and 90% were male. Almost two-thirds had previous arrests. One out of four had a drug record.
"Most of the murders took place in the poorest parts of the city.
Watch this videoWalden: U.S. needs effective gun laws
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Watch this videoBiden ready to give Obama gun findings
Watch this videoDoubts about new gun legislation "What can we learn from these statistics? That murder in Baton Rouge is almost entirely about young black men from the poor part of town killing other young black men from the poor part of town. It's mostly a matter of thugs killing thugs."
If you look at the world that way, gun control must seem a pointless diversion from the real problem: not guns, but one particular group of gun owners. Somebody else's problem. But life is not so neatly separated.
Guns offer equal opportunity tragedies. More than 8,000 white Americans had to be treated for nonfatal gun injuries in 2008. Eighty percent of those who commit suicide with a gun are white males. The gun that the suburban family buys to protect itself from "thugs killing thugs" ends up killing its own: One important new study finds that a gun kept in the house is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than to be used in self-defense.
Thugs killing thugs? Maybe. But many of those seeming thugs are carrying guns for the same reason that people who consider themselves respectable carry them : in a futile quest to protect themselves with greater firepower. One person can find safety that way. But if two people carry firearms, a confrontation that might otherwise have ended in words or blows ends instead with one man dead, and the other man on his way to prison for life.
Louisiana sends more people to prison than any other state, at a total cost of almost 7% of its state budget. Prison is always expensive, but the incarceration of murderers costs the most, because they remain in prison to the end. The oldest of Louisiana's prisoners cost the state almost $80,000 a year, including their health care.
Widespread gun ownership means not only more gun killings, but also more gun maimings and cripplings. The National Rifle Association's Wayne LaPierre hailed the ability of a "good guy" with a gun to stop a "bad guy" with a gun. Sixty seconds later, however, that bad guy may need a wheelchair for life. We can't dismiss these human costs as pertaining to only somebody else. They are all part of us.
Yet the urge to subdivide runs strong among Americans. Monday on Fox News, the popular conservative commentator Ann Coulter claimed that the murder rate among white Americans is as low as the murder rate in Belgium. "So perhaps it's not a gun problem," she concluded. "Perhaps it's a demographic problem."
But countries cannot dismiss the sufferings of great blocks of their people by dismissing some "demographics" as unworthy of attention.
If you ignore America's poor, you can make all kinds of problems disappear from view. Not counting the poor and minorities, the country does not have an obesity epidemic. Not counting the poor and minorities, the United States has perfectly adequate schools. Not counting the poor and minorities, America would have a higher average income.
Likewise, not counting hurricanes, America would not have so many natural disasters. Not counting divorces, America would have more intact families. Not counting wars, America would have a smaller public debt. But what's the point of this exercise? The people who make up America count as Americans, and their problems count as America's problems. Their problems do not occur in isolation, but are manifestations of failures to which all Americans contributed together.
Those young men in Baton Rouge who are killing each other in such horrific numbers do not manufacture their own guns. They did not organize the gun trade that brings the guns to their town. They did not write the laws that prevent their town government from acting against guns. They carry guns -- and misuse guns -- thanks to a national system of gun regulation that makes guns easily accessible to those least likely to use guns responsibly.
The gun laws intended to put guns into the hands of "good guys" are the laws that also multiply guns in the hands of "bad guys" -- bad guys who might not have become such bad guys if the guns had not been available to their hands.
The price of redefining gun violence as an issue pertaining only to "those people" -- of casting and recasting the gun statistics to make them less grisly if only "those people" are toted under some different heading in some different ledger -- the price of that redefinition is to lose our ability to think about the problem at all.
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IM NOT ENDORSING THE ARTICLES BUT MANIY INTERESTED IN THE NUMBERS.
In the December third addition of the Columbus Dispatch there was an Op/Ed piece by syndicated columnist Leonard Pitts Jr.. It was titled, "Another Day in Black America, Yet another Violent Death." This article hit home with me in a profound way, it forced me to think about this issue and inspired this opinion piece. In this eloquent and well written article Mr. Pitts commented on a very difficult problem or society faces today, Black on Black murder in America.
The article flows in an almost poetic fashion while addressing a very difficult topic. It also imparted some statistical information we are, at this point, all too familiar with. It begins by tying the murder of the Professional Football player Sean Taylor, shot in his home at the young age of twenty four, to the murders of all black men who are victims of Black on Black crime.
Mr. Pitts is one voice, a black voice expressing his despair, one black voice of despair amongst the multitude. In his article he states, "We die and it goes unremarked, die so much it's hardly news anymore." He then proceeded to make a couple poignant statements. "...
In my opinion Mr. Pitts couldn't be more spot on in his commentary. I work in the Correctional Field and I witness young Black men coming into the system day in and day out, per capita far in excess of any other ethnic group in America. My position puts me indirect contact with these young men and leaves me with a very unique perspective on the matter. My feelings, based on experience, run deep on this matter. I feel that one of the basic geneses of this problem is a manifestation of the failed family unit in poor Black communities. I suspect that there are many others that hold the same opinion as I do, be they Black or White.
I also believe that there are many in the white community that feel, they don't care what happens in the Black inner city, as long as it doesn't affect them personally. There are many that feel, why the hell should we even try to help out with this situation when they aren't even trying to help themselves. Speaking as a white middle age man with a somewhat unique perspective on the matter, I can see where they are coming from. If for no other reason then racism and mistrust from the Black community towards any effort the white community might employ to help change the problem.
Until the Black community stands up and fights for their own children, face-to-face and hand-to-hand, the rest of us can't help. Until the Black community tries to solve this problem from within, our White hands are tied, and the Black community will continue to be victims of their own making. A reduction in Black crime, a prosperous and educated inner city population, an inner city without self imposed Black on Black murder is a laudable goal. A goal that must be obtained if there is ever going to be a future for these kids but it must come from within!
INTERESTING NUMBERS .
updated 8/9/2007 8:37:06 PM ET
WASHINGTON — Nearly half of the nation’s murder victims in 2005 were black, and the number of black men who were slain is on the rise.
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A majority of the black murder victims were relatively young — between 17 and 29, the Justice Department said in a study released Thursday.
The department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics report offers a snapshot of racial disparities among violent crime victims. Black people represented an estimated 13 percent of the U.S. population in 2005, the latest data available, but were the victims of 49 percent of all murders and 15 percent of rapes, assaults and other nonfatal violent crimes nationwide.
Most of the black murder victims — 93 percent — were killed by other black people, the study found. About 85 percent of white victims were slain by other white people.
National Urban League President Marc Morial, a former mayor of New Orleans, said the data reflect a trend that cannot be reversed by law enforcement alone. It will require changes in public education and a revival of federal summer jobs programs for economically disadvantaged young people, he said.
“The mixture of illegal drugs, easy access to handguns, and young men who feel locked out of economic opportunity is what these statistics reflect,” Morial said.
Murder rate down in U.S.
An estimated 16,400 people were murdered in the United States in 2005, down from a peak of 21,400 a decade ago. Similarly, the number of black people slain dropped over the last 10 years, from 10,400 in 1995 to almost 8,000 in 2005.
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But the murder rate among black men rose slightly between 2004 and 2005, continuing several years of dips and increases.
Two years ago, 6,783 black men were murdered, up from 6,342 in 2004, the study shows. The murder rate among white men also rose, but less dramatically: 5,850 were slain in 2005, compared with 5,769 the year before.
Murders of women, white and black, remained relatively unchanged between the two years.
Among the study’s other findings:
•Never-married black people were more likely than all other blacks to be victims of violence.
•Poorer black people were at a greater risk of violence than households with higher annual incomes.
•Black people living in cities were more likely to be violent crime victims than people living in suburban or rural areas.
OK AN KEEPING A OPEN MIND WHY ARE MOST SERIAL KILLERS A MASS HOOTERS WHITE????
First, always be wary of statistics. They can be made to sound as proof of whatever theory the user wants them to prove. For example, the word "homicide" covers many forms of unnatural death and is not limited to murder, however many people think that it is. Murder is defined as the unlawful taking of another's life.
bullet According to FBI statistics, over 18,000 people were murdered in 1997. The 1997 figure was down 7 percent from 1996, and 26 percent from 1993.
bullet According to data about 15,289 of the estimated 18,209 murders in 1997: 77 percent of the victims were males and 88 percent were persons 18 years of age or older. Forty-four percent were ages 20 through 34. The percentage of whites murdered was 48 percent, blacks 49 percent, and other races accounted for the remainder.
bullet In 1997, according to supplemental data reported for 17,272 offenders, 90 percent of the offenders for whom sex, age, and race were reported were male, and 87 percent were persons 18 of age and older. Seventy percent were ages 17-34. Of offenders for whom race was known, 53 percent were black, 45 percent were white, and the remainder were persons of other races.
bullet Data indicate that murder is most often intra-racial among victims and offenders. In 1997, data based on incidents involving one victim and one offender show that 94 percent of the black murder victims were slain by black offenders, and 85 percent of white murder victims were killed by white offenders.
bullet According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, homicide rates recently declined to levels last seen before 1970. The homicide rate doubled from the mid 1960's to the late 1970's. In 1980, it peaked at 10.2 per 100,000 population and subsequently fell off to 7.9 per 100,000 in 1985. It rose again in the late 1980's and early 1990's to a peak of 9.8 per 100,000 in 1991. Since then, the rate has declined, reaching 6.8 per 100,000 by 1997. Also from the BJS:
bullet Homicides are more likely to involve multiple offenders than multiple victims
bullet The percentage of homicides involving multiple offenders increased dramatically in the late 1980's and early 1990's, increasing from 10% in 1976 to 16% in 1997
bullet The percentage of homicides involving multiple victims increased gradually during the last two decades from just under 3% of all homicides to 4%
What would MLK say? I don't know, probably depend on who he would have copied it from.
This info is not new, but it is STILL crushing to me. I have lifelong friends who are black. I am eternally grateful for their friendship, and the love and guidance of their parents (whom I call my Aunt Nancy and My Uncle Warren). No relation to them at all, but they are (were) the finest of human beings.
My "cousins" if you will, live in Houston, Tx. in what might be called a tough neighbourhood. They tell me that they are like "whites" in that they do not put up with the BS that the thugs use to justify their crime. AND THEY ARE LOOKED DOWN ON!
I told them to leave. I begged them to take a loan from me to GET OUT!
To their credit, and they have my undying respect; they refused. All four of them. They told me that their place was right where they were. That their duty was to break the ignorance. That they could not face their Father in the afterlife if they did anything different.
I do know have words for that kind of dedication. I do not have words for that kind of honor.
I will just say this: There are some, perhaps many that ARE NOT IDIOTS in the African American Community. They live on the front lines, and they are still trying. These are the folks that we should be helping. They will make a difference. They already are.
In Memory of my Uncle Warren: An Officer, A Gentelman, A Pure Warrior. An Engineer, A Scholar, A Poet. More than anything else; A shining example of what a real man should be. That was in the 1970s, when it was still commonly accepted to call a black man "Nigger" to his face, and fear no reprisals.
Uncle Warren was Black. But he was no Nigger. He was among the finest of men. And every black boy in America can be as great as he was.
Sorry if that was a bit rambling. But it touches my heart closely.
Well said, bellson, well said. I was brought up in a racist world and I see it everyday. Luckily I was able to rise above it. To quote MLK, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I have tried to live by these words, and God knows that I have failed at times.
Back to the OP's original thought- I beleive it has become a culture thing, I have seen black kids try to succede in school as a child. These children were chastized by their black peers, They would say things like "You trying to be white?", "uncle tom," etc., just for wanting to make good grades. The gun violence is a part of that same way of thinking. You arent really black unless you act a certain way, and that way is many times exessivly violent. It is the product of being taught to be that way for generations now. Its become the "right" way to act if you are black.
I see a trend in the whites who are involved in the meth culture around here, they are fast going down the same road.
You're right about the meth heads here too. They are getting more bold, more brazen, and more violent. This shit has to stop.
'The powers that be' have socially engineered them to the point of 51% of their pregancies end in abortion, and most of the youth are drug addicts.
Truly a sad state for ANY people.
It is true that many have broken out of the 'conditioning' but to me it almost seems like an intentional degradation of their society and with the entertainment industry controlling the minds of Americans in general, the whites are not far behind.
If I killed half of your population, it would be called genocide. If the government sponsored me in my venture (tax dollars/welfare), it would be called democide.
THERE ARE A LOT OF CONTRIBUTING FACTORS HERE . MY TAKE IS A LOT OF THIS IS GANG OR GANG LIKE KILLINGS. I SEE THE MEDIA TV , MOVIE, CARTOONS, MUSIC ALL CONTIBUTING TO THE GETTO LIFE STYLE AN MAKING IT SEEM COOL. ITS NOT ALL GANG BUT GETTO INSPIRED
I SEE GANGS MEAMBER SHIP AS WAY TO FIMND A PLACE WERE YOUR EXCEPTED AN ALSO PROTECTED. NOT ALL OF THIS IS A BLACK THING BUT A POVERTY THING. UNFORTUNATLY FOR A LOT OF BLACKS THEY ARE STUCK GROWING UP WERE THEY ARE.
IT SEEMS THAT YOUR GOING TO HAVE THE SAME MENTALITY IN MOST POOR NEIGHBOR HOODS REGUARDLESS OF RACE.
WE CANT SIMPLY SAY TO A 5 YEAR OLD BLACK KID WANT A BETTER LIFE GET A JOB, THAT KID GETS RAISED WERE HE IS AN DOSENT HAVE A CHOICE ON HOW HE IS BROUGHT UP.
BLACKS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AT THE BOTTOM OF INCOME EARNERS IN THIS COUNTRY . BLAME RACISM OR WHAT EVER ITS A FACT MOST BLACKS DONT MAKE GOOD MONEY . I SUSPECT THAT THIS AFFECTS THERE CULTURE IN AMERICA MORE THAN ANY THING. REGUARDLESS OF COLOR POVERTY BREEDS CRIME, POOR PARENTYING, DRUGS, ETC.
WHAT I DO SEE IN BLACKS WHO ARE NOT POOR IS WILLINGNESS TO EMBRACE THOSE OF THERE COLOR WHO HAVE MADE IT BIG. THEY EMULATE THE RAPPERS, SPORTS STARS TRYIG TO CONNECT TO THOSE WHO ARE SUCESSFUL. THEY TRY TO BRING THE SAME ATTITUDE AN STYLE TO MAKE IT WHO THEY ARE. ITS ALMOST LIKE COUNTRY BOY WHITE REDNECKS ALL ACTING LIKE THERE COWBOYS AN ACTING LIKE THERE IN A COUTNRY MUSIC VIDEO. YET THEY DONT HAVE A HORSE OR A 4X4. THEY EMULATE WHAT THEY SEE IS COOL.
IT COULD BE THAT TO MANY BLACKS ARE LOW INCOME AN THERE ARE NOT A LOT OF OPTONS. I SEE OUR GOVERMENT PROVIDING TO MUCH AN MAKING IT TO EASY TO NOT GO WORK OR EVEN TRY TO . I DO FEEL OUR GOVERMENT IS BREEDIG A CULTURE OF TAKERS BOTH OF ALL COLORS . I FEEL THAT POOR BLACK TEEN GIRLS SEE GETTING PREGNATE TO GET MONEY FROM THE GOVERMENT AS A WAY TO SURVIVE. THOSE KIDS THEY HAVE ARE RAISED POORLY AN BECOME PART OF THE THE ESCULATING PROBLEM. I FEEL THERE IS A GREAT ANOUNT OF RACISM STILL AN IT HURTS AMERICANS IN THE FACT THAT WE END UP WITH GROUPS THAT WILL REMAIN POOR AN FROM THAT CULTURE COMES 49% OF MURDER VICTEMS CAUSED BY 91% OF THERE OWN RACE. ANY TIME WE CAN SOME HOW BETTER ANY GROUP LIVING IN AMERICA TO HAVE BETTER VALUES WE ARE HELPING EVERY ONE LIVING HERE.
IF OBAM WANTS TO REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE IN THIS COUNTRY HE NEEDS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO END THESE GETTOS AN GETTO INFLUANCED LIFE STYLES THAT AFFECT ALL COLORS OF PEOPLE. I LOOK AT CHICAGO AN THERE PROJECTS AS BASICALY STATE AN GOVERMENT SPONSORED CRIMINAL AN POVERTY BREEDING GROUND. THEY HAVE BASICAL TAKEN POOR PEOPLE WHO HAPPEN TO BE MOSTELY BLACKL AN SHOVED THEM IN ONE SHIT HOLE AN BASICALY CREATED A PLACE WERE CRIME , DRUGS, AN THAT CULTURE REIGNS . WE HAVE ALLOWED GANGS TO THRIVE AN NOW WITH THE ILLEAGLE IMIGRATION EXPLODING THOSE GANGS NOW HAVE EVEN MORE COMPETITION FROM THOSE OTHER GANGS.
IN A NUT SHELL ITS HOW YOUR RAISED AN UNFORTUNATLY FOR MANY BLACKS THERE IS NO HOPE OF A NORMAL UPBRINGING.
TO MANY PEOPLE WILL NOT EVEN ADRESS THE ISSUE AS IT QUICKLY BECOMES A RACIAL HOT POTATO.
I SUSPECT IN THE FUTURE ILLEAGLE HISPANICS WILL LEAD THE PACK IN MURDERES IN THIS COUNTRY FOR MANY OF THE SAME REASONS. GRIME BREEDS MURDER AN WERE EVER YOU HAVE POOR LIVING SITUATONS YOU WILL HAVE HIGH CRIME ITS NOT A RACE THING IT HAPPENS IN EVERY COUNTRY REGUARDELSS OF COLOR.
THERE IS NO EASY ANSWER TO FIXING THIS. YOU CANT GIVE EVERY POOER PERSON A GREAT JOB , YOU CANT EASLY END THE HUGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY DRUG SALES BRING AN ELEMINATE DRUG DEALERS WHO WILL KILL OVER DRUGS,
SCHOOLS IN POOR AREAS ARE HELL HOLES AN MANY WHO GO THERE LEARN VERY LITTEL AN HAVENO CHANCE.
ITS A VERY COMPLEX ISSUE THAT CANT BE SUMED UP BY SAYING THEY DNT WANT TO WORK OR BETTER THEM SELVES IS WAY PAST THAT.
I HAVE BALCK FRINED WHO WAS RAISED IN JOHANISBURG SOUTH AFRICA WHO IS VERY EDUCATED AN WISE AN HE SEEMS TO SEE IT AS CULTURE BASED ON A HISTORY OF OPRESSION THAT HAS GROWN IN TO POOR VALUES AN TRADITIONS. HE FEELS THAT RACISM HAS CREATED IT BUT DOSENT FEEL THAT IT IS CURRENTY THE MAIN CONTRIBUTING FACTOR . ITS SORT OF LIKE TRADITON IN THAT CULTURE. IF SOME ONE ,MESSES WITH YOU THEN SHOOT THERE ASS MENTALITY GONE WILD.. I GUESS WHITES HAD IT IN THE WILD WEST DAYS AS WELL.
I MAY COMPLETLEY WRONG AN IM NOT GOOD AT EXPRESSING MY THUGHT ON THIS . ITS VERY HARD TO DISCUSS THIS WITH OUT SOUNDING LIKE A RACIST.
IM LOOKING AT THE FACTS AN NUMBERS WITH OUT TRYNING TO THINK RACIAL THOUGHTS AN BEING OBJECTIVE.
SO HOW DOES THIS COUNTRY FIX IT OR DO THEY EVEN WANT TO????????????
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