I was having a chat with a scout mother who's become a bit paranoid as of late. She's convinced the nation is screwed - that there will be orders to make some people just 'disappear', as was done in Germany. I had to think - if the "agitating right-wing extremists" and "gun nuts" just start disappearing one by one, what would people do? If a New Orleans 'disarm' order came, what would people do? More importantly, what would LEOs and the military do?
Disturbing to have to think about, and yet, I couldn't help but think. What would I do? Where is my line, beyond which I move from passive resistance to active resistance? Are there enough Oathkeepers to effectively keep the military from becoming the Sturmabteilung? Are there enough LEOs who will uphold the Constitution to prevent another Katrina gun-grab, or not carry out orders that they believe are unlawful?
I'd like to hear opinions - would our military officers and LEOs stand down in the face of unlawful or unconstitutional orders? Or would they mere cite "befehl ist befehl" as they obey like sheep? Where is YOUR line in the sand? Or have you thought about that unpleasant fact?
If a dozen military guys came to my door to take my weapons. other than die trying stop them in a gun battel there would be really nothing I could do. they would just take them.
There is no good way for one guy to stop this. If they suddendly decided to take everyones guns at once that might be a differant matter there might be a resistance. but most people are not going to fight it out with the millitary or LEO,s.
Many, many years ago, I took the oath when entering into the Navy. When I left the military the one thing I didn't give up was the oath. As a kid, the oath to uphold the constitution and to defend our great nation from enemies both foreign and domestic didn't have much impact on me until the last 20 years or so. So, I guess it's all a judgement call. Gestapo like actions by the establishment is unacceptable at any level.
Trying to stop a gang of government goons would be suicide. It would require guerilla tactics to strike back when their guard is down or when they are isolated in their own homes. Anyone now doubt the efficacy of caching some firearms and ammo for later retrieval?
__________________ When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America , you get a front row seat. - George Carlin
This question had been asked many many times.. When is enough, enough. Until the American people's standard of living drops down to where the rest of the 3rd world is, Americans will do nothing.. the public doesn't care much about the Constitution, if they did, all these gun laws would have never been passed.. now cut off the TV, the electrical grid maybe some gas supply.. you'd have a revolution.. cut off the welfare checks close the walmarts.. people would start killing each other..PDQ
If the government wants to take you out, you will be dead.. they have unlimited resources and you do not.. the only way to win is to have strength in numbers.. bury your guns , fine if you bury them on some wilderness area far from your house they may remain undiscovered, unless your followed... if you bury them on your property or close to your home and the government bends their will to find them, they will find them.. they have the resources dogs, metal detectors, ground penetrating radar etc...etc.. What do you think they'v been perfecting in IRAQ for years now... And when you need your guns they will be buried. But even if you had them, small arms can not win the fight, against tanks, aircrafts, night vision, body armor.. do you have all those things I doubt it.. even the Afgan's fighting the Russian's were getting their ass kicked until the USCIA gave them the ability to take out the Russian aircrafts and they had the troops and the gun's. Do you have any friends or family who would not turn you in for reward, when the gov dangles 10 grand in front of them?? or 50 g's or 100 g's it's just paper to them...they will print more...... learn from history. If you fight you will likely die sooner rather than later.. look what happened to Randy Weaver look what happened to the founding fathers most of them lost every thing they had, land property ,family, friends, and went to jail... They won the war in the end, but lost many a battle.. B2B
I was having a chat with a scout mother who's become a bit paranoid as of late. She's convinced the nation is screwed - that there will be orders to make some people just 'disappear', as was done in Germany. I had to think - if the "agitating right-wing extremists" and "gun nuts" just start disappearing one by one, what would people do? If a New Orleans 'disarm' order came, what would people do? More importantly, what would LEOs and the military do?
Disturbing to have to think about, and yet, I couldn't help but think. What would I do? Where is my line, beyond which I move from passive resistance to active resistance? Are there enough Oathkeepers to effectively keep the military from becoming the Sturmabteilung? Are there enough LEOs who will uphold the Constitution to prevent another Katrina gun-grab, or not carry out orders that they believe are unlawful?
I'd like to hear opinions - would our military officers and LEOs stand down in the face of unlawful or unconstitutional orders? Or would they mere cite "befehl ist befehl" as they obey like sheep? Where is YOUR line in the sand? Or have you thought about that unpleasant fact?
I joined [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
don't have to sweat me turning - not sure if by doing so I am on some extremist short list, but if that is the case - so be it... But I am also Pro Gun, anti Abortion, deeply devoted to God and about every other right week short list thing you can think of
__________________ I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I'll kill you all.
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
What you have to do is think from a Liberals mindset. What is the one thing that has infiltrated the entire Law Enforcement Community? UNIONS. You have the Police Benevolent Association (PBA), the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP), and who knows how many others. Do you actually think that these guys are going to side with us? I do not think so. I was in Law Enforcement (many moons ago), I got out because of the Unions and the politics. When it got to the point when I could not trust the person who was watching my back because I did not know where he stood in Union disputes (or did for that matter), it was time to quit. Today's Law Enforcement Officers have a very dangerous job and should be treated fairly. But, they are Public Servants, which means they serve the will of the people. Who represents the people, government.
OK, I will turn over the soapbox now.
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If the government, essentially the military, turns on the American people and decides to overtly decimate the constitution and civil liberties there isn't a chance in hell that the citizenry could win, or even sustain for any length of time, a conventional war. As has been stated the government has at their disposal an arsenal of weapons and technology that the citizens couldn't even imagine owning.
There are really only 2 real hopes for victory for the resistance in this scenario. 1) The Military, or elements of it, defect to the resistance and bring their weaponry with them. 2) A protracted guerilla war that slowly grinds the government into a stalemate. The sad part is, as someone stated above, someone will eventually sell out the resistance, or elements of it, for the reward. There are always traitors in every group and that will more than likely be the downfall.
A better hope is to work within the system. Work against the direction this country is headed in. VOTE to replace the leftist, liberal, agenda with a more individual rights, freedom based, conservative government. There is no excuse for sitting by and letting this continue past the next series of elections. Will you stand up and be counted or sit down at the corner diner and complain bitterly about the sad direction this country is on?
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There are two kinds of people, those that are prepared, and those that suffer.
Actually small arms CAN win wars.
There's several guerilla groups and small to medium militia groups that have succeeded in stopping armys for years or decades.
They were faced with tanks and heavy weapons.....but still managed to be a fly in the ointment in which the military simply couldn't flush out.
What do you think is going on right now in iraq?
They had the US military stalled for a long time, and all they had against us were Large numbers, primitive AK-47's, RPG's and IED's.
And it put us in a MASSIVE debt.
And we can't really print anymore money, and we can't keep borrowing from the Chinese forever.
The chinese practically OWN this country....like it or not.
Now do you think the military is actually going to air bomb or drive tanks down EVERY road in america in efforts to destroy us and it's own country?
Besides, we ARE the military and police. Everybody here is either in the military, police or knows TONS of people that are in either branch....or maybe both.
Now ask THEM if they would go threw with such a rediculous order.
I sure as hell know I wouldn't.
The government KNOWS it can't go this route....the country would be destroyed.
The economy would be done for.
If the government wants to take guns away, they are going to have to do what they've probably BEEN doing........SLOWLY ship away our rights....until they pushed too far and everyone revolts against them........
Often you just have to look at history to read the future.
But personally, i think the entire idea that the government is out for everyone's guns is crazy......guns arent going anywhere in this country. The government accepted that a long time ago.....the politicians just like to push our buttons, but they know they won't ever get anywhere.
Actually small arms CAN win wars.
There's several guerilla groups and small to medium militia groups that have succeeded in stopping armys for years or decades.
They were faced with tanks and heavy weapons.....but still managed to be a fly in the ointment in which the military simply couldn't flush out.
What do you think is going on right now in iraq?
They had the US military stalled for a long time, and all they had against us were Large numbers, primitive AK-47's, RPG's and IED's.
And the difference between the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan is that they have lived a lifestyle of hardship and deprivation for their entire lives. In this country if you take away some people's electricity for 24 hours or more they are virtually paralyzed. The same with running water, home heating fuel, and gasoline. We are used to a life of comfort and convenience. It will take an entire mindset change for most to be able to engage in this lifestyle for any length of time and survive, let alone engage in a protracted guerilla war.
By the way, just for the sake of asking, how many people do you know own RPG's, or something similar, or can construct IED's?
Yet, we never learn the lessons of our past wars of this type. We follow rules of engagement that the enemy laughs at. Such as no attacking Mosques or other religious buildings. Despite the fact that that is where the insurgents are hiding. There can be no quarter given, nor expected in a guerilla war.
And it put us in a MASSIVE debt.
And we can't really print anymore money, and we can't keep borrowing from the Chinese forever.
The chinese practically OWN this country....like it or not.
The wars last longer because of stupid PC rules of engagement. Find the enemy and destroy them. No dancing around, no political interference, no quarter given, if they won't surrender destroy them.
Now do you think the military is actually going to air bomb or drive tanks down EVERY road in america in efforts to destroy us and it's own country?
They won't need to. Once they attack Aunt Edna's town, or Gramma Jone's, or your friend Billy Bob's place and decimate them the turn coats will pop out of the woodwork trying to save their own skins. The querillas will be handed over to the government by your very friends and relatives.
Besides, we ARE the military and police. Everybody here is either in the military, police or knows TONS of people that are in either branch....or maybe both.
Now ask THEM if they would go threw with such a rediculous order.
I sure as hell know I wouldn't.
As I said above, they will either follow through with those ridiculous orders or join the guerillas. Unless large elements of the military defect they will have to follow the orders or subject themselves to being charged with treason. Which I believe is punishable by death. And even if they join the guerillas who will supply them? If elements of the military bring their weapons with them, M1A1 Abrahms Tanks, or jet fighters, or helicopter gun ships, where will the fuel and ammunition to support them come from?
The government KNOWS it can't go this route....the country would be destroyed.
The economy would be done for.
Of course the country AS WE CURRENTLT KNOW IT would be destroyed. But the destruction would occur as soon as the military took over anyways. Do you honestly believe you would have the freedoms you have now under a military dictatorship?
The economy for many has been done for for almost a year. My oldest son has been out of work since May and has been looking for ANY job in a 5 county area and can't get hired. How much worse can it get? The government is hiring and firing top executives for corporations, setting work rules, and demanding sweeping internal changes in the largest companies in this country. They have a job czar running these corporations like a puppet master. Socialism is here already and it isn't working.
If the government wants to take guns away, they are going to have to do what they've probably BEEN doing........SLOWLY ship away our rights....until they pushed too far and everyone revolts against them........
Often you just have to look at history to read the future.
But personally, i think the entire idea that the government is out for everyone's guns is crazy......guns arent going anywhere in this country. The government accepted that a long time ago.....the politicians just like to push our buttons, but they know they won't ever get anywhere.
Guns are a back burner issue right now. The economy and the decimation of America as we know it for the new Obama World Order is leading the way right now. But with avowed communists (listen to the numbers of high staff members who praise Mao) right in the leadership taking away guns is not now, nor will it ever be a dead issue under this administration. It will be a slow drain of our rights all the way up to and including confiscation. Perhaps not of all guns, but for sure the ones they see as subversive.
We can agree to disagree, you see this your way and I see it mine. Since for now it is all hypothetical it is really nothing more than a game.
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There are two kinds of people, those that are prepared, and those that suffer.
Where is the line?
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