Women in combat

[sovblocgunfan]

First, thank you for your service.

I have not served and am curious about what your opinions are about Panetta's announcement today. I have heard from more than one female soldier today ( one a marine sergeant on a female engagement team that just returned from ashcanistan) saying women should not be in combat roles with men because men will value the women over the mission and instinctively try to protect because that's what we are hard-wired to do.

I dont know because i have never been there. What say you who have? Truth? Bull? What about gender-segregated teams? I honestly dont know but would like to hear your opinions. From the outside looking in, i say prolly not a great idear, and the concept is simply HR PC diversity politicking.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

[Abukai08]

Well first of all... I'm a Marine meaning I am in the business of following orders. With that being said, if they say I have to fight next to a woman there is nothing I can do about it as I do not make policy I just enforce it as a leader of Marines.

My only thought on this subject is this... The Marine Corps has been effective in completing the mission for 237 years. Is implementing this policy going to aid us in completing the mission better? If not and the only reason for this is to make a small percent (about 13% of the USMC is women) feel better then they are doing this for the wrong reasons.

Any woman Marine who says it is for promotion opportunities should know better because they already know combat has a miniscule impact on promotions. So if this is for bragging rights or just to make a person "Feel" like something then all it is, is a feel good policy which it is a bad decision. This is the difference between someone making it home to their family and not a social experiment.

The last thing I am going to say about it as a combat vet of both Iraq and Afghanistan to the women who are pushing for this is... Be very careful what you wish for. There is nothing glorious about combat. Knowing somone is trying to shoot you to end your life is not a fun feeling or something that makes you more proud to be you. Our responsibility is to defend the nation and, at times, take lives... This is not to make you feel like one of the boys.

[sovblocgunfan]

Thank you for that. Seems you have already put quite a bit of thought in that. I guess what kills me about this is the things you describe as the wrong reasons are precisely what panetta talked about as benefits from this policy change.

[Sprat]

Originally Posted by Abukai08

Well first of all... I'm a Marine meaning I am in the business of following orders. With that being said, if they say I have to fight next to a woman there is nothing I can do about it as I do not make policy I just enforce it as a leader of Marines.

My only thought on this subject is this... The Marine Corps has been effective in completing the mission for 237 years. Is implementing this policy going to aid us in completing the mission better? If not and the only reason for this is to make a small percent (about 13% of the USMC is women) feel better then they are doing this for the wrong reasons.

Any woman Marine who says it is for promotion opportunities should know better because they already know combat has a miniscule impact on promotions. So if this is for bragging rights or just to make a person "Feel" like something then all it is, is a feel good policy which it is a bad decision. This is the difference between someone making it home to their family and not a social experiment.

The last thing I am going to say about it as a combat vet of both Iraq and Afghanistan to the women who are pushing for this is... Be very careful what you wish for. There is nothing glorious about combat. Knowing somone is trying to shoot you to end your life is not a fun feeling or something that makes you more proud to be you. Our responsibility is to defend the nation and, at times, take lives... This is not to make you feel like one of the boys.

does that first paragraph also mean you would shoot civilians if ordered to do so!!!!!


The Iraeli army has had women in the front lines for years, the soviets in WW2 had women in the front lines

my only concern would be if I had a daughte old enough to get drafted? should they re-institute the draft

[Abukai08]

Originally Posted by Sprat

does that first paragraph also mean you would shoot civilians if ordered to do so!!!!!!

No because part of my oath was to obey LAWFUL orders.

Not only is it my right, but it is my duty to deny such orders that would be deemed unlawful.

Lawful orders and policy are two differrent things...

[sovblocgunfan]

...

[dcholl]

Originally Posted by Abukai08

Well first of all... I'm a Marine meaning I am in the business of following orders. With that being said, if they say I have to fight next to a woman there is nothing I can do about it as I do not make policy I just enforce it as a leader of Marines.

My only thought on this subject is this... The Marine Corps has been effective in completing the mission for 237 years. Is implementing this policy going to aid us in completing the mission better? If not and the only reason for this is to make a small percent (about 13% of the USMC is women) feel better then they are doing this for the wrong reasons.

Any woman Marine who says it is for promotion opportunities should know better because they already know combat has a miniscule impact on promotions. So if this is for bragging rights or just to make a person "Feel" like something then all it is, is a feel good policy which it is a bad decision. This is the difference between someone making it home to their family and not a social experiment.

The last thing I am going to say about it as a combat vet of both Iraq and Afghanistan to the women who are pushing for this is... Be very careful what you wish for. There is nothing glorious about combat. Knowing somone is trying to shoot you to end your life is not a fun feeling or something that makes you more proud to be you. Our responsibility is to defend the nation and, at times, take lives... This is not to make you feel like one of the boys.

I agree with you 100% I am a former jarhead and to all Sisters thank you for your service1 and to those who may read this that are deployed becareful over there and keep aleart no matter how tired you are! it just may save your hide. As for my personal fellings in the matter, Combat is no place for a women Killing is a nasty bussiness and at the present time business is Good!
I firmly believe that those serving in the middle eastern theater are going to find out the hard way that eas dates dont mean a thing anymore! Going into a combat role for a battle field promoation is not the way to go about it. You are there for as long as they need you or until your body is so used up your on a medivac flight out of country, or have paid the ultamate sacrfice. The current administration is globe hopping from one country to another, its not hard to figure out that when the prez says we will be out of a certain coutry by a certain date , he already has another country to go to and start fighting
in my opinion Obama is becomming a dictator whom, dose not care about troops he commands, they are just pawns in the great military gane of chess.
Its a pretty well kniow fact there is no way to win any of these conflicts and wars without turning those countries into permanate parking lots with very little occupancy. Every second term Presedent has a scandle in thier second term. So far obama has started gun control, and the next thing that will roll down the hill and has started is women in combat. ok fine its not like we are against the NVA or Northean korean troops which by the way are very good at what they do, but niow wew area against not just a country but the way I see it , its the whold damm islamic natiion. remember these terroists kill in many diffrent ways and they woukld love to make an example of an american female sholder by decapitating her or even worse, and if the shit really hits the fan, Surprise since you can now go into combat roles you can now be elegiable for the DRAFT its only a matter of time.Myself Id becarefull what one wishes for, due to the fact not only will you get it but get it in spades I wish you all a safe return from the infested countries you are in and to com back home in one peice, As your brothers in arms wil tell you killing is not glamerious and as time goes by yu will feel the effect of it.
All the Best <<<Doc

[Bradrock]

My first thoughts as an outsider myself, is that the media is allready anti war/ military. When these young ladies start coming home in bags, it will be like pouring gas on the fire.
Or taken hostage & raped by the camel jockies on live al - jazeera . You know....al Gores network buddies....Come to think of it.....sounds like it will play just fine with Obamas hatred for the military.
Don't suppose he put a bug in Panettas ear on his way out????

[Abukai08]

America withdrew from Somalia when images of mutilated men stripped of their clothing were dragged through the streets... No imagine that was a single mother of 2...

[Carbine Coyote]

We know that women in a combat zone are not immune from being casualties. But the one caveat in this new proposal is that they must meet the same physical standards as the male troops. I do not predict many women opting for infantry slots.