caveman

[TRX]

One of the poorly-defined destinations many people have is "a cave", probably in "the mountains". Caves are pretty darned rare in most places, though.

I just realized that I know of a beautiful SHTF cave, though. At three hours away down rural mountain roads it's likely too far to be of any personal use, and I'm sure the locals have already made plans to use it should the need occur.

Blanchard Springs Caverns in the Ozark Mountains. It has only two points of access - an electric elevator and an airlock. It's wired for lighting, has plenty of fresh water, and the ecosystem seems able to keep the air fresh despite the continual flow of tour groups. There's a lake within walking distance, and the whole area is heavily wooded.

In fact, we've visited other public caves in the same general area; the Ozarks are riddled with them, though only a dozen or two are developed for tourism. For every one that is, there are probably a lot more that aren't suitable for development... if you know where they are.

Down here in the flatlands I can (and have) hit the water table with a shovel, and any cave-like formations would be full of water.


Of course, the primary problem with a cave as a bug-out location is "the people who got there first."

[Mr_Posthumous]

Could always 'smoke em out!!'

There are a lot of problems with having a natural cave as a bug out location. Is there only 1 entrance/exit? is there a way to discard of trash and body waste that will not contaminate drinking water, should you get stuck in the save? How far back can you have a fire, so that the smoke won't suffocate you? All sorts of different things. I think the best kind of BOLs are ones that are (usually) man made, i.e. bomb shelters, storm cellar type things, is areas that can provide self-sustainment.

Id like to own one of those demilled nuke silos, but im sure the geoloc coords for those are still planted in some computers in some other nuke silos owned by other countries...

Those huge corrogated pipes look like they'd be decent for storage, temporary human use. Or just build your own shelter with elmers glue, legos, and old ammo cases

[swamprat9]

If I get caught in a desperate situation like that I will forcefully remove anyone that got there first,that is unless they have more weaponry than me.I have a couple plans but if my plan B fails I will seek out someone elses plan A and take it at all costs.Sounds shitty but If the situation is that dire I will do what it takes for my family even if it means taking out someone to gain what they have.

[Rahatlakhoom]

Should be an abundance of abandon homes to move into at any given time.
Plenty around my area.

[sjohnson]

I used to do a lot of spelunking. Caves are cold, one of the most common cave rescues involves extracting a caver with hypothermia. So if you plan on using one better have plans for insulation and heat.

[nalioth]

I used to do a lot of spelunking. Caves are cold, one of the most common cave rescues involves extracting a caver with hypothermia. So if you plan on using one better have plans for insulation and heat.

Maybe they're cold at the top.

As you go deeper, the temperatures get warmer (or colder, depending on the season outside) and stay the same temperature pretty much year round.

[sjohnson]

Caves form in limestone formations. The only problem with getting warmer as you go deeper is that, absent warm mineral springs, it takes a few thousand feet of depth to gain temperature. A cave thousands of feet deep is going to be ultra rare due to the nature of cave formation.

Even if one were available, stocking supplies, managing sanitary facilities, and simply navigating to depth will be problematic. Again, due to the nature of cave formation, the trek into the depths will include vast rooms as well as crawlspaces barely large enough for a determined caver to pass.

"Normal" caves maintain somewhere in the vicinity of constant 50-60 degree farenheit temperatures. This is cold enough that, as I stated before, the most common cave rescue operation involves evacuating a hypothermia victim. There is no sun, warm breeze or anything except tons of rock at that temperature, so it is difficult to raise the temperature around you without insulation to ward off the immense heatsink that's all around you. Insulation and a heat source are vital unless you plan on staying right at the cave entrance.

[TRX]

Warmer than a snowy winter outside, though.

A cave's main advantage is that it's defensible; not that it is comfortable.

[sjohnson]

I'm not talking comfort, it's about health. Caves sneak up on people. 60f doesn't seem cold, but it's always taking heat from you, without end.

It's the reason otherwise seasoned spelunkers get caught and need rescue; the cave is relentlessly taking heat from you.

[FyredUp]

Warmer than a snowy winter outside, though.

A cave's main advantage is that it's defensible; not that it is comfortable.

Defensible until somebody gets close enough to toss in a Molotov cocktail or a stick of dynamite.

Hell, how about just firing into the cave randomly looking for richochets to do some harm to the inhabitants.

As I recall the Japanese were not all that successful in defending their caves in WWII. Sure they held out for a while, just as anyone would. But running out of food and water would be an issue eventually. As well as disposing of bodily wastes.