how much firewood for "global warming"? - Page 2

**Coils** · 12-31-2010, 01:37 PM

Ash, I was looking at those too.
Depending on the size of your cabin, and building codes (if there are any in that area), they seem very efficient. But if you look into them more, most people using them are in fairly small homes and most of them are earth made houses. You know the hippie type in the north west.

Another thing is the exhaust, most building codes require the chimney to be above the highest point of the building, if you make the heat exchanger to long it won't have enough force/draft to go that high.
Now to use the same principles you could make something similar, look up a masonry heater or Russian stove, it's almost the same thing but made of brick or stone and looks like a fireplace, the exhaust gases pass through several turns before going out the chimney or pipe. You burn them hot to heat up the masonry and that slowly radiates the heat.

Actually a steel/cast iron stove (wood or coal) can be turned into a mass heater, build up brick or stone around it to hold in the heat. And if you put a thermometer on the stove pipe before it goes into the chimney or exits the building and your getting readings over 300 degrees, you can reroute that sideways through a heat mass then turn it back toward the exit to soak up more heat.

I found info where a guy built a mass heater using a 30gal & 55gal drum, placed them inside each other so the 30 is the fire box, then he put masonry sand (crushed granite) between the two (this was the heat mass). He claims with a short hot fire it radiates heat for at least 6 hours.
I'm actually looking into doing something like this right now, the place I live in now is all electric heat and three months of the year the bill at least doubles and the rates keep going up, hopefully this will help a little and I can get wood fairly cheap or free.

**4thIDvet** · 12-31-2010, 03:28 PM

Yes.. Please. You are good with this picture talking machine.. You mentioned the Russian stoves. I read a long time ago about them.. They use them in Siberia, where wood is scarce and heat is life or death.
Rather complicated heat exchangers, but super super efficient.
Lessons learned from some cold winters in Vermont. Dont get a stove that is too big for heating your home.
You will have a creosote build up and the stove will not work efficiently.
Like our AC units here in Florida. Too big the A.C. cant do an air exchange. It defeats the workability of the unit.
Coils. See if you can find something on those Russian stove heaters. They build them with fire bricks, I do believe. But the efficiency of them is supposed too be incredible.
The stove Mija has, I have used. Excellent in my small cabin in Vermont.
Your project, if you decide too accept this mission.

Get info on the Russian stove.
I am going too be at knob Creek with BigAl, Bluejack and 555th this spring. Come hell or high-water.
Looking forward too meeting you and the guys.
I want my picture with Bluejack and his autograph.

j427x · 12-31-2010, 08:50 PM

maybe we should go in the stove biz?? --LOL!

**Coils** · 12-31-2010, 09:34 PM

4th here's a couple videos, I'll look for more info.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Oh and like that stove Mija has, look at this one a guy did with a barrel.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

**ashhoe** · 01-01-2011, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coils

4th here's a couple videos, I'll look for more info.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Oh and like that stove Mija has, look at this one a guy did with a barrel.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

The first two links are basically "nice" versions of the 3rd world rocket stove mass heaters. I'll probably go with the nicer version. I always wonder why people don't allow for air from *outside* for combustion air, it makes the most sense. Why would you pull air from inside to burn and force cold air to be drawn in from all the cracks and so-forth. Not to mention cold air is denser, more oxygen, for a hotter burn.
And for code in northern Michigan, in the woods (the big woods), it's pretty lenient. As long as I feel good (as a licensed builder and licensed electrician) I should be good.
I wonder where you can source all those sweet oven doors and all that cool iron work, need to start looking.
Happy new year by the way. Seems a lot like last year, 'cept I gotta start paying FICA again so it's actually worse than the end of last year. Great.

**4thIDvet** · 01-01-2011, 08:39 AM

Thank you for the links. Excellent. Good points all. That Russian stove can be built my anyone that can put two bricks together.
Incredible efficient design. The longer you keep heat trapped inside, the more efficient the stove becomes.
Find an old house in your A.O. that they are demolishing. You can probably get the fire bricks for free. Just the labor of hauling them off.
The more efficient the stove, the less wood you need.
Incredible the man with the barrel stove started the fire with newspaper. No kindling.
The Russian stove makes the heat work too get out. Rather than just shooting up the chimney.
If it gets any colder in sunny Florida. I may be building one.

**4thIDvet** · 01-01-2011, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j427x

maybe we should go in the stove biz?? --LOL!

With fuel and heating bills getting more expensive. It may not be a joke. We might just get rich.

j427x · 01-01-2011, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thIDvet

With fuel and heating bills getting more expensive. It may not be a joke. We might just get rich.

yea but Al-gore would shut us down--

maybe if we moved the factory to CHINA?

LOL!

**Coils** · 01-01-2011, 10:22 AM

Quote:

The first two links are basically "nice" versions of the 3rd world rocket stove mass heaters.

Yeah they basicly are, but that design has been around a lot longer then the rocket stove. They both use the same basic principle, burn some fuel hot and fast, and trap the energy in a heat mass. I think the rocket style ones use less fuel since it has a small feeding area, but I also think they need to be loaded/attended more often, the older design will burn longer because it can hold more fuel and doesn't need as much attention.
There's a video on YouTube of a guy that built a rocket mass heater with just bricks, it reminds me of a compination of a rocket stove & Russian stove but smaller, it looks like it takes up less floor space then a pallet (40"x48") would and maybe about 4'-5' tall.

What I would do is study both designs and combine them together to fit your needs.

Hell this guy designed a low cost down draft rocket style stove out of barrels and never knew it.
The pic (only one) sucks but you get a good idea how it works. The large barrel is the downdraft fire box, the pipe that goes into the small drum goes almost to the top and the chimney pipe is a seperate pipe that goes down into the barrel. This forces the heat to stay in the barrel longer and radiates more of it.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Quote:

The Russian stove makes the heat work too get out. Rather than just shooting up the chimney.

That's the main downside of most stoves (even new ones) and fireplaces, 60-80% of the energy from the fuel goes up the chimney, make this energy travel a little further and through a battery (bricks or clay) to save as much of that energy as you can. That's why I said earlier about just putting bricks around a basic wood/coal stove will save a lot of that heat as well.

joshk · 01-02-2011, 06:59 AM

mixed hardwood 55/ face cord and propane $2.30/gal here in western new york...i like the idead of the wood/oil burner