Saiga-12 gas piston and 922r

**7.62x39** · 09-21-2008, 09:40 AM

According to the ATF letter that Pookie posted they (ATF) treat the parts count just like a milled receiver AK. (No Trunnion, but otherwise the same as a stamped receiver)

The Saiga has a floating piston and what looks like a normal piston used as a operating rod.
If the floating piston is what is considered as the piston by the ATF, as evidenced by Tromix's US made part. Why is the normal piston looking part not considered an operating rod? After all, they consider a FAL cocking handle as an operating rod in the FAL count (which is a real stretch in my humble opinion)

Here's my question. Which part is the ATF really considering the piston?

**sjohnson** · 09-21-2008, 09:52 AM

Replace both, and the question is moot?

**7.62x39** · 09-21-2008, 10:33 AM

I'm not replacing either, I've already made my parts count. FCG and furniture = 6
I'm just curious as to whether or not Tromix is actually selling the right part.
I just can't believe that the ATF would not count the normal looking piston as a op rod if they are counting the floating piston as the actual piston.

**hcpookie** · 09-21-2008, 12:10 PM

That has been precisely my contention from the beginning! Compare the parts to an SKS action, and then you'll see why I wonder.

The "operating rod" aka "tappet" would be what that part is defined as... and when compared to an AK, that part connected to the bolt carrier is indeed the "piston".

Now re-read that ATF letter. No mention of operating rod whatsoever!

SO... the way I see it, the real question is, do you:

a) assume the ATF mis-typed the letter and replace both parts to keep with the spirit of the law?

b) proceed on the current data and replace that which Tromix or Hotbarrel sells to keep with the letter of the law?

I think "B" for now.

Frankly, it is a trivial matter to replace the piston, and I know Hotbarrel could whip us up a batch in no time.

Therefore, if ever the ATF recants and produces amplified documentation, you could have the additional part(s) installed and ready to go before the next trip to the range!

IMHO. I'm sure others will disagree.

nalioth · 09-21-2008, 02:38 PM

Don't you think Tony Rumore verified with his lawyers / ATF / whoever before he started grinding out his pucks?

**7.62x39** · 09-21-2008, 05:06 PM

Yes, I do think He would have checked.
That's why I find this so perplexing. I agree that it is and should be counted as the piston.

Aloxite · 09-30-2008, 10:39 PM

If anyone does decide to make a US version of the S-12 piston, I'm in.

I'd buy at least one but up to 3 if the price is right.

I can't see why the Tromix puck piston costs $45.

**Coils** · 10-01-2008, 12:42 AM

I think I see a future project for HotBarrel

**DPH arms** · 10-01-2008, 11:32 AM

Once we get a clear word on which way to go, we will have them made and keep them in stock.

Scott

**7.62x39** · 10-01-2008, 05:40 PM

I wonder if the magic number the ATF comes up is some how connected the manufacturer's parts break down.

Here's a scan of the factory Saiga breakdown.
Notice that what we normally refer to as the carrier and gas piston (#15) is all one unit and is called a bolt support. The puck (#8) is referred to as the piston (correctly)
Also notice that the barrel (#2) and what we call the trunnion, are also one piece.

Maybe that's why the ATF does not include a gas piston/op rod or a trunnion in their count?