full-auto conversion pre '86 ?

[kernelkrink]

Apparently Congress authorized some military contractors to be exempt from the Hughes Amendment ('86 MG ban) :

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

"Both men also said they favored doing away with a 1986-passed cap on the number of fully automatic weapons available for sale. At that time, Congress limited the number of fully automatic guns - guns that will fire as long as the trigger is pressed - to those in circulation in 1986. Since then, the price of these limited weapons has gone up. However, civilian police forces are exempt from the cap, and recently Congress allowed certain military contractors to be exempt from the 1986 cap, too".


No idea what law they are talking about, but they seem to know of it. Likely an obscure amendment tacked onto a school lunch program or somesuch. The new ATF reform bill that is sitting in Congress apparently wants to expand that exemption:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

(b) Sale or Delivery of Machineguns to Federal Contractors- Section 922(b) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following: `Paragraphs (2) and (4) of this subsection shall not apply to a sale or delivery to comply with a contract between any person and the United States which requires that person to provide national security services for the United States or any training related to the services.'.

[Markp]

Ya, wasn't passed...

Mark

[sjohnson]

Originally Posted by Markp

hmmm, if they work with FFL licensing, can the entire company run under the license of 1 FFL 07. Seems possible, sketchy but doable.. If that's the case, might as well start a company, make a bunch of buddies, employee/owners and sell machine guns to others who become employee/owners...

I can't imagine blackwater being county LE, they have no legal jurisdiction... or at least they shouldn't!

Mark

Are you speculating that Blackwater, or other contractors, operate/possess FA firearms on a regular, widespread basis within the U.S.? If so, can you cite news or research supporting that speculation?

I don't find any info supporting such a speculation. Outside of the U.S., that's another matter.

As far as using your license, while I don't know how many are pre versus post May firearms, my local shop, Gary's Guns, rents FA to the public. $30/first 30 rounds, cost of ammo for the rest of the session. Not everyone who works, rents out or rents the machine guns has a license, there's only one FFL01 AFAIK.

[moleman]

Blackwater did get its tit in the wringer by buying guns for a small police or sheriffs department a while back witht he understanding that they could use them for training whenever they wanted. [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] I'd imagine though that they would be exempt from any full auto laws as long as they are acting as an employee or "agent" of a government body.

[Markp]

Originally Posted by sjohnson

Are you speculating that Blackwater, or other contractors, operate/possess FA firearms on a regular, widespread basis within the U.S.? If so, can you cite news or research supporting that speculation?

I don't find any info supporting such a speculation. Outside of the U.S., that's another matter.

As far as using your license, while I don't know how many are pre versus post May firearms, my local shop, Gary's Guns, rents FA to the public. $30/first 30 rounds, cost of ammo for the rest of the session. Not everyone who works, rents out or rents the machine guns has a license, there's only one FFL01 AFAIK.

I am speculating, because it's hard to train like you fight unless you have access to the weapons you plan to fight with... You might not have seen any info supporting that, but the 2008 raid linked above seems to support that allegation.

It's an interesting point because these firms certainly have a need for post May firearms, and I would assume that they would be procuring them for training through a legal method, or as close to legal as possible.

Mark

[sjohnson]

Originally Posted by Markp

I am speculating, because it's hard to train like you fight unless you have access to the weapons you plan to fight with... You might not have seen any info supporting that, but the 2008 raid linked above seems to support that allegation.

It's an interesting point because these firms certainly have a need for post May firearms, and I would assume that they would be procuring them for training through a legal method, or as close to legal as possible.

Mark

From the link,

it is not unusual for Blackwater to store automatic weapons because the company is licensed to sell, provide training on, or even manufacture firearms.

34 FA firearms that first passed an ATF audit and later did not constitute evidence use "on a regular, widespread basis within the U.S.?" Thanks, I'll pass.

[Gun Trust Lawyer]

The Hughes amendment to the NFA prohibits the conversion or manufacture of an NFA Machine Gun after May of 1986. You cannot use a Trust, corporation, or get approval as an individual to do so. Many people have submitted applications and been rejected.