THERE IS A TON OF SCIENTIFIC AND MATHMATICAL AN STRUCTURAL VARIABLES IN VOLVED IN BARREL HARMONICS. I FIND IT INTERSETING THAT THE MOST ACCURATE FACTORY BARREL'D AK IN 7.62X39 IS A AMD65. THE GAS TUBE LOCKS IN EXTREAMY TIGHT AS I FITTED IT THAT WAY TO KEEP THE TUBE FROM MOVING BECAUSE THE SCOPE RAIL IS WELDED DIRECTLY TO IT. ALL OF THE PICTURED PISTOLS HAVE TIGHT FITTING TUBE/SCOPE MOUNTS. I CANT HELP BUT WONDER IF THE SHORTER BARREL IS ACTUALY HELPING. THERE IS VERY LITTLE BARREL PAST THE GAS BLOCK. IM GUESSING THAT THE FORWARD PRESSURE ON THE GB ACTUALU HELPS PREVENT BARREL WHIP AND POSSABLY DAMPEN THE HARMONICS. SINCE THERE IS VERY LITTLE BARREL TO OSCILATE FORWARD OF THE GB IT IS MORE ACCURATE.. IT COULD JUST BE THE AMD BARREL IS JUST BETTER QUALITY.
LIKE MANY LIGHT BARRELD BOLT ACTIONS WERE THE BARREL IS NOT FLOATED BUT HAS SLIGHT UPWARD PRESSURE FROM THE STOCK SHOOT BETTER PERHAPS A LIGHT BARRELD AK WOULD SHOOT BETTTER WITH SOME SUPPORT OR A BARREL TUNER?? ONLY REAL CAREFULL TESTING WOULD TELL.
IF YOU HAVE NO INTENTION OF REPLACING A BARREL OR A CHAMBER THE ONLY REAL ADVANCES YOU CAN MAKE ARE THROUGH TRIGGER WORK.(DOSENT MAKE THE GUN MORE ACCURATE JUST EASIER TO SHOOT) THE SIGHTS OR OPTICS (DOSENT MAKE THE GUN MORE ACCURATE JUST EASIER TO SHOOT) AMMO WHICH WILL ALLOW A GUN TO ACTUALLY SHOOT BETTER BUT REQUIRES NO MODIFCATIO TO THE GUN . BARRREL TUNNERS, BEDDING, FLOATING, PRELOAD ECT (ACTUALLY IMPROVE THE ACCURACY WITH WHAT YOU HAVE.) AND ACTION TRUING WORK LIKE BOLT FACE TO TRUNION TRUEING ECT.
I PERSONALY IF WORKING WITH A BUILT GUN START WITH WHAT I HAVE. WORK WITH WHAT IS NESSACRY TO MAKE IT POSSABLE TO TELL IF THE BARREL WILL SHOOT. THE INCLUDES MANDATORY TRIGGER WORK, OPTICS, WITH OUT THESE TWO IMPROVMENTS THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN EVEN TELL IF YOU ARE GAINING OR LOOSING WHEN WORKING UP AMMO. YOU HVE TO AT LEAST KNOW YOU CAN AIM AND KEEP IT ON THE TARGET WHEN YOU PULL THE TRIGGER.
LOCK TIME WAS MENTIOND AND THAT BIG HAMMER SWINGING IN A ARC BEFORE IT CONTACTS A HEAVY FIRING PIN CANT HELP THINGS ESPECIALY IN A LIGHT GUN ALL THAT MOVEMENT AND INERTIA HAS TO AFFECT YOU POINT OF AIM. MY VARMIT GUN IS 18 POUNDS APROXIMENTLY TO IT WILL LIKELY STAY MORE STEADY FROM THE TIME THE TRIGGER IS PULLED AND THE GUN FIRES.
I DID GRIND SOME WEIGHT OFF MY HAMMER IN A ATTEMPT TO LESSEN ANY AFFECT OF ITS MOVEMENT. THERE ARE TO MANY VARIABLES TO TELL IF IT REALLY HELPED. IM JUST NOT THAT GOOD OF A SHOT AND YOU WOULD NEED BETTER RESTS AND CONTROLLED CONDITIONS FOR ME TO TELL. I FIGURED IT CANT HURT. I TOOK A SHOTGUN APROACH WHEN I BUILT IT. I JUST THREW AS MANY IDEAS I COULD AT IT AND IT SHOOTS OK. FURTHER IMPROVEMNTS ARE LIKLEY BUT THEY WILL NOT COME AS EASY.
HOW DO THE AR GUY WHO COMPETE ADRESS HAMMER MASS AND LOCKTIME ECT???
So 1biggun, what did you do when you built your .223?
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So 1biggun, what did you do when you built your .223?
Well I bought a 26" heavySavage barrel off of ebay for $110 new take off. I got bulgy bolt and bullet guide and from K-var and and Rommy kit. and basically made it all fit LOL
It all started when I got invited to go praire dog hunting and had no firearms under 30 calibur besides my 22 mag. one of my buddies who shoots a Rock River varmit AR set up challenged me to build up a AK. I spent about 2 weeks nonstop building it.
the reciver is a normal tapco bent blank with the mag well opend up to take a 223 mag and the trigger guard moved back slightly. there was nothing special done to the reciver.
I focused on floating the barrel mainly and trying to get the scope mount/RSB to work as part of the trunion as much as I could. the barrel is just under 1" DIA forward of the trunion. the RSB is a combination of original and hand made parts fitted and welded together. I milled a solid steel rectangular block that was 1.5" lengthwise and 1.25" across to match the reciver width I bored a hole for the barrel to press through. I then hand laped the block to the face of the trunion that I milled true to the bore. by hand lapping it the trunion i have 100% contact. this in theory should prevent any movement between the RSB and the trunion when the barrel heats up and also vibrates when fired. my goal was to have any barrel whip, vibration, heat warping ect to take place forward of the RSB scope mount. I even considerd silver soldering it to the trunion. I did loctight it to the trunion and it is pressed tight against the trunion and was pinned to the barrel while under pressure. its as close to one solid piece as possable. A normal RSB was sectioned and welded into the barrelblock that had a milled groove in it so it could be welded in from the side via holes for the welds. the top is milled off and a block was welded into it so a hand milled solid steel weaver style rail could be screwd to it with 1/4" allen head screws. the rail needed to be steel so it will suport itsself were it hangs over the dust cover with no rear support. the scope moves with the barrel but is at the very back of the barrel. I figured scopes are mounted on the barrels of many accurate single shot break open rifles and it had to be better than mounting it on the very flexiable reciver. the reciver makes no contact so it cant affect the zero.
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In theroy the barrel floats forward of the RSB with a original set up there is a 1 1/4 gap between the parts and I felt there was to much movement and flex going on there.
there is no contact from the forearm and the gas tube is loose fitted to the RSB by a screw and a stand off to allow it to float. the front of the tube just lays in a slot in the gas block it has about a 1/8" of freeplay.
the gas block is another custom piece that makes it work it was made from a block of steel (the next one will be aluminum with a stainles sleeve for the piston bore. I used a AMD 65 tube that was modifed to float and a standard length original piston. this allows the piston to stick out past the shorter tube. the protruding part is then held in a snug fitting bore of the GB. The bore is about 1 1/4 long. the theory was the longer tight fitting bore would allow a smaller gas port and hurt accuraacy less and also reduce any weird barrel walking warping harmonic varations. I wanted it to act as much like a bolt action from the RSB forward as I could.
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the forearm is a cut up Saiga part that is supported by a milled aluminum brace that runs under it and is attached to the reciver there is a plate on the inside of the reciver. IMOO it is a little cobbled but it was what I had at 4AM in the morning the day before I left to go hunting.
the bolt has the face milled true to the stem and to remove the bevel from the face to the sides of it. I trued the lugs of the trunion and the bolt to keep the bolt face true to the barrel as much as possable. it was mor of a eyeballing type deal as its pretty tough to hold it in position by hand. I have a idea for a jig that would hold the reciver and carrer/bolt assembly in place minus the barrel so that the bolt face could be milled through the trunon and true it. this would allow the bolt/acton to be trued with the bolt locked in to a ready to fire position. MY CURRENT GUN IS JUST A GOOD GUESS.
The trigger is a very worked Tapco. a original would work if you can meet the compliance issues. I welded a tab to the trigger that allows a screw to hit the reciver and adjust pre travel. it basicaly just screws in untill the trigger is about to release. the back of the screw hits the selector shaft and allows me to adjust over travel. the trigger to hammer suraces are gound sanded polished to get it right it took hours. I made a trigger Dyno from a cut up reciver this allowed me to tune the trigger to 99% complete. the BIGGUN TRIGGER Dyno lets me do all the cutting grinding fitting with the trigger assembled so I dont have to dissamble it a 1000 times. It really sves a ton of time. I do the final 1% of fitting and adjusting on the gun. I take the Dyno with me on hunting trips in case i need to make major adjustment. I use one of those plates insteat of a shepards hook or C clips. that way I can do a repair in the field if needed. the hammer was lightend some and the area were the carrier rides over it was re contured to allow as a smooth lower presure cycle as possable. the carrier was recontured as well. the lighter the pressure needed to cycle the smaller the gas port needed to make it work as well as less movement of the gun from the action cycling this allows you to keep your eye on the target better and see the hits this is critical for adjusting for windage and elevation on varmits and gives a faster follow up shot. I have considerd that a ligter carrier and spring might possable allow a even smaller port. This would have to be very carefully considerd before I were to try it.
the area were the hammer spring hits the trigger was reduced to allow me let the spring barely hit the reciver floor this will reduce the pressue on the trigger and give a lighter pull. it is really trickey to get it right. The selector is cut to hold the carrer back. IMOO This is a must for a target/varmit AK. I cant stand a closed action when i go down range and as touch as my trigger is I use it as a saftey while get ready to shoot. the selector were it hits the trigger for the saftey is very carefully fitted as there is very little movement to allow it to release the hammer. My next one will have a adjustment screw of some type as any trigger adjustment requires the saftey clerance adjusted to coencide with it. I had to add some pretravel to insure that trigger would engage every time and not possably double. originaly I shot the gun with no gas port or block and hand loaded every round i was able to eleminate 95% of pretravel and it made a differance in my ability to shoot it. currently I have a slight very light pretravel followed by a solid crisp aproximently 2 pund pull. It isnt really a 2 stage just FEEL you get used to. In away I like it as it allows me to actully touch the trigger when making sight adjustments on moving praire dogs with out a unexpected of target discharge. THIS GUN DOES NOT GET PACKED OR MOVED WHEN LOADED IT IS WAY TO TOUCHY FOR THIS its get set on the ground or bench and only then loaded.
I DONT RECOMEND THAT ANYONE COPY ANY OF THE TRIGGER MODIFCATIONS, I HAVE DONE ON MY PERSONAL RIFLE. THE TRIGGER IS UNSAFE BY MANY STANDARDS. DONT DO THIS AT HOME YOU COULD BE HURT OR DIE OR KILL SOMEONE ELSE.
The stock is a Advanced Technoliges Dragonov copy that I milled off the cheek weld and the sides as well and added a simple alumimnum cheek weld it was made form tome round stock and milled three sides it is adjustable with shims. Im not real happy with it and am going to make a better more adjustable one. the cheek weld is critical for keeping your down an inline with the scope. You spend hours looking through the scope and in a prone positon it is really hard on the neck. Being able to rest on the cheek weld is important after 5 or 6 hours in the sun. Im going to add a adjustable point on the stock to allow me to do away with a rear bag the adjuster will allow me to make elevation changes.. there is a Versi pod on the forearm and it is key. I wont go with out it any more. A bag or rest will be better for target shooting from a rest shooting groups but when laying on ablanket shooting in all directions and ranges at praire dogs the Versi pod is the way to go it allows paning and tilt as well. target acusiton and reacusition is key for varmits.
the scope is a cheap BSA 6x24x44 and it is ok but not great. A better scope is on the shopping list. the scope is mounted about as low as possable and still get the dust cover off. I got some ideas to make it lower but will require some mods to the cover and a differant rail.
It uses Bulgy mags and a narrowed Rommy carrer.
Im working on a LH carrier charge handel this will allow me to keep my RH on the grip and maintain a sight picture when loading and it will also make it easier to fit a shell catcher as the handel will not need to pass through it. I would like a LH thumb operated selector lever as well. the dust cover is trimmed and has a rubber lip to protect the brass.
Im collecting parts for a varmit II version. it will have a custom longer mag that will house longer 80 grain bullets an use the ammo that the AR guys have to hand load in 1000 meter shoots. A better barrel
Or possably a 22-250 improved. There is going to be a converted Saiga 308 that will likely be 260 reminton or 6.5 round. It will have the same basic stuff as this one. I really want to get a praire dog at over 800 yards and not have it be accidental.
WOW! That is some serious work you put into that. Thank you very much for sharing. I plan to limit mine to 600 yards. I was considering a B-Square scope mount and possibly adding some stiffening plates to the receiver. I'm not married to that idea though. For trigger mods I will use an RSA trigger group.
Good luck on your varmit II rifle, but I don't think you'll need luck.
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I dont think the stiffing plates will help much but I dont think they could hurt. I would like to try a RSA trigger there is also others out there.
Ive made kills out to 650 yards on praire dogs but its really pushing it. 300 yards are getting to be a piece of cake however.
Ive been working on a idea for a scope mount that would attach to the existing RSB that would not require a huge amount of modifcations. it will require drilling and taping into the RSB though.
I dont think the stiffing plates will help much but I dont think they could hurt. I would like to try a RSA trigger there is also others out there.
Ive made kills out to 650 yards on praire dogs but its really pushing it. 300 yards are getting to be a piece of cake however.
Ive been working on a idea for a scope mount that would attach to the existing RSB that would not require a huge amount of modifcations. it will require drilling and taping into the RSB though.
I have an extra one from Cope's, it's yours if you want it.
I have an extra one from Cope's, it's yours if you want it.
you have a extra RSA trigger group?? PM me.
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That's a bad a$$ build 1biggun. How about a homegrown version of a B.O.S.S.? Sorta along the same idea of the weights, just not as goofy looking.
A boss sytem might help perticularly in a factory barrel but I think for it to be worth while you would need to address the ammo issues. I would like some sort of tuneable muzzel break. If and when my finacial situation gets better I plan on doing a highpower version of the same gun based on saiga 308 parts. that build will need a muzzel break for me to be able to use it on praire dogs. If you cant see the hit then its no fun.
a B.O.S.S system or some thing like it might really help a thin barrel build. I have been some thing that I can acctually pack around and hunt with. the varmit build is 18 pounds way to heavy. I have never fired it standing up. I would like a light weight fun to carry 223 or simular round that could be packed all day. Im thinking 22" light barrel a boss sytem ight make it more accurate. I was thinking of a more traditional build with a stock looking RSB and GB. I would retain the scope mount however.
I need to research muzzel breaks and barrel tunners. Do any of the AR guys use barrel tunners in competition??? are they legal ??
I have seen the browning BAR semi auto with the boss system making me think it would work on a auto loader like the AK.
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