AK Buffers

[Seadog]

Hi out there. I was reading in another thread that some people dont think a buffer belongs in an AK that the spring is what absorbs the rearward motion preventing inpact. Not arguing that, makes sense to me. I was wondering why not to install? I havent had any problems. It is a mild shooting weapon to begin with and it made it a little better.

[ACMcom]

Because the buffer cannot absorb ALL the energy when the carrier strikes it, you've actually increased the amount transferred to the stock block. The rifle was not designed to operate that way.

[Coils]

Yep, what he said.
A buffer for an AK is snake oil. Do a search on "buffer" you'll find plenty to read.

[MUSIBIKE]

I have put buffers into AK builds just so the carrier does not slam into the top cover. If it works for you, do it.

[infamous ted]

I would think that the most popular gun inventor in the world (the Kalash man) would have thought of this if it was necessary. but... I'm kinda new so, I don't really know.

[1biggun]

on a normal AK with normal milspec ammo a buffer should not be/is not nessacary. The spring should stop the rearward momentum of the carrier just before it hits the trunion. if your gun works like this then there is absolutly no need for a buffer.

However if you go out side the norm and use differant ammo or reload and or your barrel length, port size, muzzel attachment weak sprin ect cause the carrier to already hit then a buffer IMOO will not make matters worse. a buffer if made of the correct material is no more than a over load spring to suddendly slow the carrier. I see know way that it can increase the energy transferd to the rear trunion IF the carrier is already incorrectly hitting it. for example take a nail and drive it in with a hammer. now take a buffer and place over a nail and using the same force try to drive the nail in. it is going to take way more hammer strikes to do it. In a situation were the carrier is already hitting the buffer will act like over load spring (think rubber spring). it will in theory work like a progresive rate spring that once the inital spring is compressed the secondary or heavier spring begins o do its work. it works exactly like the rubber bump stops on a car frame that are between the axle and the frame, there there for when the springs become over loaded. try bunge jumping with a cord that is 2 inches to long now a 12" foam pad on the ground what is going to impart more force to your head? the ground or the matress??

Now in a case were the carrier is not already hitting the rear trunion, adding a buffer can possably increaase the force applied to the trunion although likely not much as the 1/4" of reduced travel taken up by a compresable buffer is not going make much differance as the carriers momentium has aready been slowed down by the spring to any way unless the gun is really really out of wack. adding a buffer to a properly working non hitting AK will likely increase the percieved recoil of as the momentium of the carrier will decrease more suddendly.

the correct solution is to proberly repair the gun with a good spring and proper amount of gas porting. If you run abnormal ammo Like I do a buffer will not hurt any thing, I see it like driving my car into a brick wall or into those barrels they put in front of the off ramps in front of the wall Id choose the barriers IF I have to crash. the best thing is not to crash or let your carrier crash to begin with.

as far as using a buffet to prevent the carrier from coming out the rails when the slots are slightly to long being a bad idea, I find it interesting that the Saiga 308 has a special steel plate that would go were a buffer is normaly to prevent this. BTW my sagia slams like a MO FO so much for klaskinov enginering. Ill reduce the port to fix this factory caused issue.

95% of AK,s dont need a buffer for any reason. the snake oil comment for these IMOO is true. If you make mods or are out side of norm then they have some benifit. if I ported my gun to work correctly for my hand l;oads then it would not possably cycle standard loads. IMOO a adjustable gas block or restrictions would be the correct repair but for now I use a buffer for the heavy/hot ammo.

[1biggun]

I would think that the most popular gun inventor in the world

who ever said he was the most popular gun inventor??? I seriously doubt he is the most popular. He is the inventor of the most common fire arm on the planet granted. he also took many of those ideas from arguably better more skilled gun designers and admits to it as well. Russians take a lot of there ideas from others and improve on them some times and some times thay dont. IMOO Browning was way more talented and likely popular. Browning also designed hundrds of weapons for multipul companys. BTW my A5 shotgun the first auto loading shot gun produced made around 50 years before the AK has a buffer.

just because it is a cheap easy to produce and common fire arm doesnt mean its not with out flaws. I can think of a few things I dont like about the AK and would change if I was the man in charge. not being able to unload with out the saftey off is one. the inability to put a properly mounted scope rail on it is another. the short sight radious makes it harder to shoot, the selector lever is akward and noisy, most models dont have a bolt hold open, the triggers are one of the worst out there, there to heavy. So it is not hard to say also that the carrier slams on some models especialy when the spring wears is a flaw. however the fact that most AKs IMOO are slightly over gassed adds to the reliability that a combat weapon must have. IMOO a adjustable gas block would improve most AKs. Yea I know it aint broke dont fix it. but 99% of us here will never use are AK in combat or in self defense so IMOO making a few mods is not a crime. a buffer is not nessacry on most AKs. but on those that do need them it wont hurt as much as the carrier slaming repeatidly into solid steel. The AK has flaws I can live with and many others have lived by and possably died by.

[sjohnson]

The Browning was designed to use a buffer. The AK was not. Apples and oranges comparison, IMHO. Not saying you're wrong, I just don't see any connection.

A buffer will not change the amount force applied to the tang. And, neither will the recoil spring. Newton's Third Law: "To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

What the spring will do is to distribute that force over time, the time it takes to compress the spring when a round is fired.

What the spring does is to keep the bolt carrier from hammering the tang, deforming it with that force.

What a buffer will do is to keep the bolt carrier from hammering the tang when the spring isn't doing its job. The only problem with the buffer is that it distributes that force in a way the rifle wasn't necessarily designed to handle. Things MAY be just fine with a buffer, they may not.

[1biggun]

The Browning was designed to use a buffer. The AK was not. Apples and oranges comparison, IMHO. Not saying you're wrong, I just don't see any connection.

I wasent saying that the AK was designed for one. more along the lines that designers were using buffers long before the Ak was designed. as far as the connection the A5 uses a buffer to stop the bolt assembly when heavy loads caused it to make metal to metal contact. IMOO this was a good idea. like the Ak it dosent hit when running properly. just because the AK dosent have one originaly dont mean it should not have had one or benifited from one.

IMOO a part that could possably break made of plastic/nylon/ phenolic/ ect that at the time of introduction was state of the art and likely not as reliable as todays materials should have any place in a cheap military weapon that is made to run in extreame conditions.a broken buffer would cause a jam and possably a life of the operator. any thing the AK didnt absolutly didnt need it didnt get. had materials been as cheap and relaible and had the russians had the same capiabilitys as we have today I would not be suprised that it would have been part of the original design.

I dont see guys saying that composite stocks and fore grips as well as rails dont belong on the newer AK,s becuse the werent part of the original design. I dont see guys saying that stamped recivers are wrong because thay were not part of the original design. My Saiga 308 has a part on the spring anchor/dust cover catch that prevents the carrier from coming out of the rails that part is designed to take the force of the carrier instead of the stock tang/rear carrier. the carrier is identical to a normal AK. Appaerantly the designers in russia felt some change was needed. I would not call this part a buffer but it is designed to limit the travel of the carrier.

millions of AKs are out there with out buffers most run with out issues I have seen pics of were soldiers have put rubber inner tube in there guns to keep the carrier from coming out of the rails. this tells me the design is not perfect.

the pic below shows the Saiga solution

[nalioth]

Originally Posted by 1biggun

the pic below shows the Saiga solution

NO IT DOESN'T.


Please tell us WHICH Saiga you got that recoil spring assembly out of. . . .

I'll bet you lunch that it DID NOT come out of a 7.62x39 or .223 model.


You're bringing apples to the orange show.