AK Buffers

[1biggun]

NO IT DOESN'T.


Please tell us WHICH Saiga you got that recoil spring assembly out of. . . .

I'll bet you lunch that it DID NOT come out of a 7.62x39 or .223 model.

it came out of a bone stock 308 Saiga as I indicated in my above post.

My Saiga 308 has a part on the spring anchor/dust cover catch that prevents the carrier from coming out of the rails that part is designed to take the force of the carrier instead of the stock tang/rear carrier

I didnt buy it brand new but Im 99.9% sure its an original part. it sure the hell,s not home made. the carrier is identical to a 5.45 small stem normal AK carrier. the gun is unmolested in every way. I have never seen a aftermarket part like this but considerd making one for a pistol that has a issue with the carrier raising out of the rails.

If its not stock you will have to prove it to me. if it isnt Ill buy the lunch LOL

[1biggun]

More pics

[nalioth]

I know it's stock in the Saiga 308, 1biggun, but we're not discussing Saigas in commercial calibers here.

We're discussing Kalashnikovs in their original calibers of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 (.223 included for kicks).

[TRX]

Originally Posted by 1biggun

however the fact that most AKs IMOO are slightly over gassed adds to the reliability that a combat weapon must have.

A military firearm MUST fire every time the trigger is pulled. If they oversize the gas ports and hammer it to death, the armorer replaces it with another one. They're expendable, like boots.

This is why so many military rifles have oversized chambers that deform the brass when firing. The bolt must close over a cartridge that's dented, covered with pocket lint, mud, or Chee-Tos. The case shouldn't rupture when fired, and the military doesn't care about reloads. [anyone who has owned a 'loose' Lee-Enfield has had a prime example of this]

[1biggun]

I know it's stock in the Saiga 308, 1biggun, but we're not discussing Saigas in commercial calibers here.

We're discussing Kalashnikovs in their original calibers of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 (.223 included for kicks).

not sure who we is. but the fact that I mentioned it was a 308 at least twice in previous posts shows that we have not restricting talk to one type of Kalashnikov. if you read my post it points out how Saiga addressed a issue that a normal Ak sometimes has.

Every body gets up tight if anyone even sugests that a AK has any faults. the fact that the Saiga 308 uses a near identical identical carrier IMOO is certainly relivevant.


you choose to point out that the pic I posted with a discripton of what a 308 Saiga used was not a sagia solution and then pointed out that you would bet that it wasent out of a 7.62x39,5.45, or 233 even though I never even implied anywere it was used in those caliburs. the origianal post did not indicate any specific calibur. while I admit a Sagia is not a true military AK any improvments that there enginers felt nessacary should certainly be open for discussion if it can be applied to a staandard AK. The fact remains that this is the solution that Sagia used in some of there rifles to eleminate a problem. A Problem that some factory built AK,s have and that many home built ones also have. I see revelance to mentioning it

the origanal post was about the pros and cons of using a buffer. one of the pros is that it will prevent the carrier from coming out of the rails and it is a proplem in factory AK as evidenced by the pics I have seen of soldiers with innertube stuffed in the back of there guns to stop this.

if i had a source for 308 Saiga spring anchors or what ever there called I would consider using them in my hunting and target builds or any build were trying to make it look original wasent a concern.

What I havent determined is why just the 308 Sagia has this feature

[1biggun]

Originally Posted by 1biggun
however the fact that most AKs IMOO are slightly over gassed adds to the reliability that a combat weapon must have.

A military firearm MUST fire every time the trigger is pulled. If they oversize the gas ports and hammer it to death, the armorer replaces it with another one. They're expendable, like boots.

This is why so many military rifles have oversized chambers that deform the brass when firing. The bolt must close over a cartridge that's dented, covered with pocket lint, mud, or Chee-Tos. The case shouldn't rupture when fired, and the military doesn't care about reloads. [anyone who has owned a 'loose' Lee-Enfield has had a prime example of this]

yeap I agree and that is also why you likely dont see a buffer in one. a buffer is one less thing to go wrong.

my statment should have been more along the lines that a AK is intentionaly over gassed to add to the reliabilty of it.

I have never advised any one to use a buffer in a normal AK that properly functions. I however advised there use with heavy loads.

speaking of oversized chambers I have seen AK,s with over .015" of side wall clearance and neck clearance. I suspect that some of the issues that wolf and other ammo have seen can be atributed to this. great for a in the mud combate rifle, bad for accuracy and some thing I dont need in a civilian rifle. I use much tighter tolerances on my custom barrels that i hunt and target shoot with but if I was going to war they would be loose as well

[chipmechanic]

I'm thinking the 308 saiga has the part there to keep the top cover from popping off . Sort of the same way the yugoslav guns use a latch retainer for their grenade launcher AK's

[o.d. ak]

Not to add any fuel to the fire, but i have to agree with Biggun here.

A few friends of mine have had carrier lifting issues with "stock" AK rifles. One was a CIA WASR (yeah we know CIA builds are hit or miss) and another was on a bulgy milled rilfe. Installing soft buffers fixed both problems and i have one installed on my first romy build tapco flat rifle for that exact reason.

Saying that a buffer shouldn't be there because "it wasn't designed for it" is like saying there shouldnt be overhead cams or fuel injection on gasoline engines. Sometimes circumstances necessitate "improvemnets".

[nalioth]

Originally Posted by o.d. ak

Sometimes circumstances necessitate "improvemnets".

You are exactly right, but I'd not call it an "improvement".

The ONLY time I ever have recommended a buffer is when someone has a badly out-of-spec receiver that the bolt wouldn't stay in when cycling.

Not an 'improvement', but more of a 'band-aid'.


Any other problem you're having (that you think a buffer will "fix") is more than likely in a worn out recoil spring.

[1biggun]

[quote]I'm thinking the 308 saiga has the part there to keep the top cover from popping off . Sort of the same way the yugoslav guns use a latch retainer for their grenade launcher AK's[/QUOTE

its possable thats what its for how ever it dosent latch or do an thing differant other than stop the carrier short of hitting the trunion directly. Im not sure how it would prevent it from coming off it dosent hook into any thing. it is sloted so the carrier tang dont hit. to me it simply looks like a fix for the carrier from raising out of the rails. I do know there is no way that carrier is going to come out the rails with it installed . It does take close to a 1/4 out of the stroke of the action. I can also tell that it is getting hammerd pretty good. My general impression of this perticular gun is that its got a lot of issues from poor fit and finish to a GB thats to small for the pistion to sharp edges that cut your hands to the absolutly worst trigger of any fire arm I have ever handeled.

If it didnt have a three lug trunion that would handel around 60,000 PSI id pawn it off in a hurry. I will convet it to some thing like a 260 remington and repair all the other issues and give it a gas port that wont slam the trunion/ dodad on the spring anchor and then it will be one of my favorite guns.

Ill compare the rear trunion to a normal AK when I get a chance perhaps there are some specific to the 308 rear tunion features I have over looked. the part that protrudes through the dust cover has a edge that hooks around the dust cover that would make it harder for the cover to come off as well.

I assume it does what a buffer would do as far as prevent the carrier from jamming but there may be more to it than meets the eye.

edit after comparing a rommy trunion to the 308 sagia I see very little differance. the cuts in the reciver are the same as a NDS-5 as far as length. I tried a standard spring assembly in it and found that the bolt not the carrier will rise out of the rails. The 308 lugs are differant than a normal AK slightly.

with a normal spring the 308 is non functional as the hammer raises the bolt up and jams the action. the spring on the 308 seems stiffer Ill try to get a scale on it at some point. so Id have to say the caarrier stop is to prevent bolt rise not carier rise. Interestingly enough there is a post of a staandard AK having that same issue currently in the AK build it your self section.