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MY.451 & .458 AK Ideas

4K views 65 replies 11 participants last post by  Bradrock 
#1 ·
Im looking at a several factory rounds that could have the rims rebated easly on a lathe or possably a drill press jig in possably a one step operation with a custom ground bit. they are all shorter than the 308 WIN overall loaded length. the first is the 444 marlin it uses the 44 mag pistol bullets . the 45-70 and the 450 Marlin (basicaly a 45-70 MAGNUM) there is also the 458x2 american and a couple of other wild cats.
the 444 marlin brass is $45 per 100 it would alow the use of pistol bullets of 430 dia and 44magnum barrels could be rechamberd and also would use the same bullet as the new 450 bushmaster.
the 45-70 ($42 per 100) and 450 marlin brass( $81 per 100) would use the .458 rifle bullets. I would likely rebate the rim to standard 7.62x39 dia but a 308 WIN size rim could be used and the bolt opend up if it makes the rebating process eaiser or if the smaller rebated size is to much for that case. there are loads for all these rounds from 14,600 PSI clear up to 45,000 PSI so im sure a safe load can be found. these rounds should fit in a modifed G2 mag or other 7.62x51 MAG. the 450 marlin head spaces on the magnum belt so keeping the belt and rebating it may be a little tricky. there is no need to use it anyways as the brass is way higher than the 45-70 brass and those have been loaded hot in modern guns for years. there is no reason the AK needs to be stuck with the same short rounds as the AR. rebated rimmed ammo would still use the same chamber as the factory stuff. also rebating the rim would prevent hotter factory ammo from chambering.
the 458x2 american uses shortend magnum brass. I just know that I need to do something with this 458 win mag barrel
 
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#52 ·
The one I made for fun at lunch is .429/430 not .458. It's really just a long .44magnum with a 30.06/.308 base.
What you made is exactly what I am proposing except I will leave it 444 marlin length(2.225) with a loaded length of 2.60( 308 win loaded length is 2.80) then I can use the 444 dies. A 444 marlin is basicaly a really loooong 44 MAG. I am bidding on some dies now. I want to leave it long so it will work in a 308 WIN length mag. I am thinking of trying to do the chamber on a lathe I have some old barrels to practice on.
 
#53 ·
Gunter, I'm sorry I misunderstood! You made what's called a 44 Automag. :cool:

http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w357automag.html

http://www.automagparts.com/dimensions.htm



Funny thing - I'm thinking about making an Automag conversion myself! I've been looking at the .357 AMP. I've been on the fence about it, and guess what they had at the GS - 500 rds primed .30-06 brass for $40!!! I couldn't pass it up. I figure 250 each of the 45 Winchester Magnum and 357AMP should do well for starters. The Hornady .45 reloading dies state they work with the 45 Winchester Magnum, so all I would need to do is get a barrel reamed and find a good magazine or build some with my sheet metal brake. I wonder if .30 Carbine magazines would work. Probably not.


Biggun, did you get that idea somewhere or think of it all alone? I could have sworn I read yesterday in my research about a .444 Marlin that was renecked to a different size. Perhaps it was a .357... don't remember now.
 
#55 ·
*SWEET*

I was expecting they would not, and decided I was going to use either Uzi or MP5 magazine springs in a custom bent magazine arrangement. I may still make some mags just because I can :)
 
#56 ·
I tried several mags, the m1 worked best, I made a double stack double feed but botched the lips inside a bit. It became clear though the short stubby round would not feed because of the side to side angles, but if you could do a sten or grease gun style double stack, single feed it would work too.
 
#57 ·
Yep, it's sort of a 44automag only cut at 1.75 instead of 1.3. A 44automag magnum? I stopped by a Sportman's warehouse and picked up a 44spl/mag die set and guess what they had on the shelf...the cartridge conversion book that I had aready ordered. So, I thumbed through it. The nearest one was a 44 Ballard extra long or something like that, but it uses a rimmed case. I saw that Hornady has the Levereavlotion (or however you spell it) ammo in .44 mag with a 225 grain bullet. So I guess you could make a 440 Bushmaster.
 
#58 ·
Another book that's good, especially with building your own cartridge conversion tools, dies, etc is "The Home Guide to Cartridge Conversions" by George C. Nonte. Less "fluff" than the Donnelley book. Both are good to have :)
 
#59 ·
I just ordered Cartridge Of The World from Amazon for about $10. Can't beat that! :)

I'll look for the Nonte book. Its dated 1967 and Amazon doesn't have any for cheap... :(

I like Donnelley's book, but it isn't as "deep" as I think it should be. I think they assume the reader can figure out the gaps, but there is room for improvement. Not much about reamer or reloading for wildcats other than the "this is a reloading die" stuff found in all of the books. The fireforming section needs work. He completely dismisses hydraulic forming as "too messy"... I obtained all the fireforming info just by reading forums. If it could be more objective, I think it would really stand out. I'm still glad I have it.
 
#62 ·
Nice link. I was thinking about an adapter similar to that for the 700 FH shotgun :) I think that press-fit rim would be easier.

That "manual of cartridge conversions" book talks about different ways to adapt existing brass (or even brass tubing!) to fill those voids. The book has a big focus on obsolete cartridges, but I don't recall if it has anything for rims. I'll have to look at that.



Biggun the COTW book is "OK" but not anything I'd consider ground-breaking. You could probably find most of the info in that book in places like the accuratereloading forums. But the price was right - I'm glad I didn't pay full retail for it :)

One thing it has that *REALLY* piqued my interest is the .950 JDJ. Made from 20mm shells necked down to .95" and shoots a 3600 grain slug something around 2200 FPS. Something crazy like 20,000 ft/lbs energy! :D They were a limited run, but that has me thinking what else I can dow with those 20mm cartridges I saw for sale at the last GS. I think I need a big-bore dinosaur slug gun! :) I need to look more closely at that 700FH slug gun. But that's for a different disussion ;)
 
#63 ·
Says that the 950 JDJ is NOT a distructive device according to the atf HMMM. the book does have a few rounds that are not in the cartridge conversion book. I bought it for my 6 year old for xmas a few years ago. He is collecting brass and we look up any thing we find in the book. (if any one has any odd stuff laying around he is always looking)
 
#64 ·
No DD is what got my attention about the 700FH shotgun mod. Its really a LONG super-magnum shell.

You do know that collecting brass is a bad habit, right? That's how I got the bug for a .45-70 conversion! :)
 
#65 ·
Its My sons collection but I am constantly digging through it so I can measure it up for some super wildcat conversion. he likes playing with the digital c clamp(calipers) I have to admit that you 45-70 conversion has my full attention. I am going to do a 444 Marlin posably rebated first. Buy the way i saw .458 rifle barrel blanks for around $65 at Midway or natchez recently (cant rember)
 
#66 ·
In my youth in Michigan, my dad always deer hunted with a hacksawed off Springfield Trapdoor rifle. The 45-70 just has so much history it's like a legend. probably one of the all time tops if you figure longevity & how many firearms have been and still are chambered for it. I don't see how you could go wrong building one on any platform possible.
I'll wait for the tutorial with pictures.
 
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