HC I was referriorng to the 10 round sagia mags not working correctly with a STANDARD444 marlin in the Tromix conversion. It is obvious there is a issue with it using some factory loads or Tromic would not have shelved it.(I should and will keep my rimless project on a seperate thread )
I have no doubt that IF TROMIX wanted to modify a mag and or reciver it would be doable. I was looking at a used sagia 410 to modify thus weekend but passed. I have one 410 now but dont plan to modify it.
The 44super long would be a great round I dont know if it would be any better than the 450 bushmaster but it is possable that the 450 AR mag could be modifed to fit a AK. the firts step in my mind to building a 44 superlong would be to come up with a standard dies that will size the brass and a way to seat and crimp the bullets. the next would be a way to ream a chamber Of course a custom one could be cut for about $150. I personaly make the round longer to take the full length of a AK mag with the heavyiest bullet avaliable or usable.the beauty of this round would be the use of 30-06 brass and the avalibilty of it.
I am sure Tony (Tromix) could make the .444 Marlin work without too much trouble...maybe a slight modification to the magazine....like HC said a new follower...something...his issue is that he is making these for resale and doesn't want to deal with magazine work, nor does he want to deal with whiners and customer service issues when people use the 10 round magazines and start having feeding problems. I completely understand and respect that. That being said I still want one. I'll deal with my own 10 round issues....lolol
On another little note I believe SureFire Magazines is now making a 10 round for the Saiga 410...I wonder if it would work any better? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??
I would think that if someone ironed out the bugs and came out with just a 444 marlin to saiga 410 barrel conversion kit it would sell (hint hint). The liabilty would scare the crap out of me however. I really want a 444?? in a PISTOL so a saiga conversion will not help me much. that is why I am trying the rimless thing with a standard AK kit.
are the surefire mags 2.5" or 3"???? I want some 2.5" mags for my gun I Only have 3" now
Not sure on the magazine size yet, but you can pre-order them from Mississippi Auto Arms.
Yikes at $50 a pop ill pass on the 10 round mags. the whole gun was only $165 used. thanks for the source however. I see they are on a preorder basis and that they dont actually have them in stock.
What kind of load would you start with on this? I'm not sure but perhaps one of the .45 Win Mag loads?
[QUOTE]What kind of load would you start with on this? I'm not sure but perhaps one of the .45 Win Mag loads?[/QUOTE
I would think the 458 x 1.5 barnes would be close.
there is also a 445 super magnum on page 217 of the COTW book that describe it as a 44 mag with 3/8" added to the case.
there is also the .44 wesson on page 339 of the Handloaders manual of cartridge conversion that has a 1.63 case length that should be pretty close
also the 44-40 extra long ( can be made from cut down 444 marlin & Possably rimless with 30-06 brass) it has a 1.58" case length page 340 of the Handloaders manual of cartridge conversion this a very old round I could not find dies for it. the standard 44 -40 is also close and may also maybe doable with 30-06 brass in a rimless version it has a 1.30 case length. very close the .44??? I have been eye balling the last two for a rimless version made from 30-06 brass with standard dies.one of the above loads should be close once the case capacity is determined
Ok, back home and dug out the notes so here is the whys:
The reason I cut it at 1.700 is that is the length that the 44 Ballard Extra Long is cut at before opening it up. Yeah it's based on the .220 Swift, but should be close enough to get a safe starting load. Plus it left some OAL room for different bullets in the AK mag.
Now the rest is in "around" numbers because I was using the cheap digital calipers. Mouth rim thickness after sizing is .016. For some reason I didn't write down the OA loaded mouth size, but I think it was around .459-.460 range without a crimp. The base of the unfired Winchester 30-06 case measured .464, so no going with a bigger bullet without inside reaming. Now if you cut it a little longer the mouth rim thickness might be a hair smaller after sizing.
That is where I stopped because I was going to get a 444 die set and see if maybe it could be used as the FL die. The base should be close, but don't know what the size is at 1.700 in the die. 1biggun maybe you could measure one of the 444 cases at that distance and see if it is close to .459-460. I agree the first step is to be able to produce ammo without too much work so we don't have to spend 10 minutes looking for the case that the AK just punted into the weeds.
ETA: The 445 Super Magnum is close to this.
I dont have a actual 444 marlin round. I have the 444 marlin dies I could go cut off a O6 round an run it through a die an see what I get though I may have to fire form some how first to blow the round out first not sure. I suspect it is going to be larger than what a .430 bullet will need. if the 444 marlin is correct at 2.225" then with the taper it is going to have a significantly larger ID at 1.70
I keep seeing the base dia of the 30-06 listed at .470" in all the books but I keep coming up with .462-465 on everything I measure as well ??????? the 444 marlin is listed at .470 as well.
well this is not going to be as easiy as I thought I cut a 06 case down to 1.850 ran it through a set of 444 marlin dies. the first problem is the 30-06 taper is sharper so the marlin dies only opend up the first 3/8 or so I seated a bullet and I come up with a case mouth of .459 the case is smaller behind the bullet. this would likely fire form out and could be shot as is. the problem I see is the very little taper from the base to the the case mouth base=.465 - case mouth=459 leaves a differance of.006 between the 2 ends. I wonder how this will feed and cycle with such a slight taper? the 444 marlin specs show the case mouth at .453 not sure how this is possable with a .430 bullet. perhaps It will crimp down some but i doubt it. I really need to get some 444 brass to measure. also calibrate my calipers. I took pictures now I have to figure out how to post them????