For the 444-Biggun, I'd just make a couple expanding arbors like I posted in reply #171. You have to anneal the case, but they worked great on 223 to 357 and they should do even better on 30 to 429. If you cut them off at the shoulder you may be able to get away without annealing, although I still would. I didn't have good luck fire forming when I expanded the neck and left the case hour glass shaped. A full power 357 mag load did not expand the hourglass shape from the case. I started with wax, but ened up using real bullets as the wax was messy and wasn't letting the pressure build up enough. It took a 357max load to iron it out. I think it was because the case the pressure drops off so fast in a straight walled case v/s a bottle neck. The two expanders opened up the case enough that I was able to load a hotter 357 max load as a starting load. Then once fire formed, I was able to step up to 357AR pressures. I also found that the shoulder which was now the case mouth was all over the place as far as thickness went. Some were under my target .010" thickness, and some were thick enough to prevent them from chambering. I think the reaming approach will really pay off. I lathe turn mine and that is a PITA. I just may have to make up a case reamer for it.
iD LIKE OT KEEP THE ORIGINAL SHOULDER ON A 308 BASED CASE THAT WAY i SHOULD NOT HAVE TO INSIDE REAM . 3O8 IS ABOUT .016 AT THE CASE MUHT SO HEAD SPACING OF IT SHOULD BE DOABLE . yOU HAVE A LITTLE OWRE TO WORK WIH ON 308 VS 223 . iD TRY TO RUN ABOUT .003 NECK CLEARANCE .
A EXPANDING MANDERAL WOULD WORK AN HTE CASE NEEDS TO BE STRAIGHTENED OUT AS FAR DOWN AS POSSABLE ANY WAY SO IT DOSENT HAVE A HOUR GLASS LOOK TO IT .
iM NOT WORRIED ABOUT HE HOUR GLASS AS IT WILL BLOW OUT ON FIRING A LIVE ROUND BUT IT WULD BE NICE TO BE ABLE TO GET I CLOSE INITALY .
SIINCE IM DOING A 308 LENGHT MAG WELL ON ONE OF THE SCREW BARREL GUNS i MIGHT AS WELL GO BIG ON ROUND . A 444???? LIKLEY COULD STILL BE DONE WITH THE SAME REAMER THERE IS VERY LITTLE TAPER HERE . A SHORT VERSION MIGHT NEED TO HAVE A SMALLER BASE DIE MAYBE .
A 444 MARLIN DIE MIGHT WORK ON A 308 CASE VERSION AS IS. I NEED TO GO BACK NA LOOK AT HE SPECS ITS BEEN A FEW YEARS .
IF I DONT HAVE TO CUT BRASS AN REAM THIS PROJECT IS MORE LIKLEY TO HAPPEN . IT WOULD BE NICE TO MANDERAL EXPAND, FL SIZE AN THEN TRIM AN LOAD .
A friend called yesterday, he'd just come out with a new cartridge - take a 7.62x39, expand/blow it out straight, and use a .429" bullet.
So it has a .005" thick neck ? Thats notg oing to work out well. the case head is .440 if he blows it straight an sets in a.430 bullet he has a neck of .005" or the round gets bigger in the front ?
is he using a bullet with a smaller base were it seats like a 22 lr or a old black powder round ? I have considered that but why ?
A zero taper case is not going to feed an extract very well IMO . Hell Im worried about the lack of case taper on this . an it has a .470 case head.
then you got the issue of the case capacity being to small for good performance even if you could make the round . the x39 is about 1.52" long the 444 is about 1.80 or so depending on the bullet you select an how you wish to seat it . the case is going to have about 10 grains or more capacity at least .
the round round would maybe be workable with a 40 or 41 cal bullet . I dont see it working out well with a .430 ( 44) bullet . is there any links or proof of this creation working ?
I think it's a "concept." I was just glad the Voices weren't babbling at me for a change...
Originally Posted by 1biggun
Looks like .012-.015 is common for case neck thickness. Yes, that would be a peculiar looking cartridge when loaded... I'll let him know next time I talk to him.
I'm still thinking a .44 AMP die set and reamer with .308 brass is the way to go. The AMP brass is inside-reamed to get the bullet to seat, since the brass gets thick midway down on a .308. Depending on where you cut it off, you might be able to skip the reaming step; just shorten the brass and go for it. Which is good, since the RCBS forming/reaming set is rather expensive. You can still pick up Hornady .44AMP reloading die sets for $60 or so.
Id have no issue making brass with 44 marlin dies an few other things . yes the neck would be thick . Im not sure it would be a issue how ever an a thing neck would help for head spacing off .
you sure the hell are not going to want to head space on a .005 think neck whne you need a rpound .003 or more clerance .
the 44 AMP might be a option Id have to look at it .
unless a you use a bullet with a smaller base than the bullet like on a old BP load or a 22 lr I dont see a x39 case working .
now a 41 cal bullet might work out an be really doable . might even make a really cool revolver round
I have been looking more at getting this back off the ground . :) I plan on keeping the thick brass at the case mouth for a better head space stop . I am also thinking of reducing the case length to 1.80 vs 1.830 to give a little more room for pointed bullets or long heavy cast bullets .
I want this to be a not ream or neck turn deal were all you do is cut an trim to size case expand an load . im using remington brass an I need to make sure other brands of brass will still fit the chamber. so I need to get a hold of some varius 30-06 or simualr rounds cut them doan an see how they are at the 1.80 mark .
If any one has any un needed various brand 30-06 brass Id be happy to put it to good use moving this project forward . Im particularity interested in a few military cases to cut an measure .
I could just make the chamber perfect for Rem brass an just stick with it . its avaliable new an used . It would be ice I I could use any 30-06, 270. 8mm type case an not be to tight .
it still going to be a while . :( Its looking like ll be getting some help for a meamber here but Id like ot finish the last thing he helped me on . LOL the screw in a barrel build will get a 444??? barrel at some point .
If any one has any 44 cal Hornady 365 grain leverlution bullets I could really use a couple to finalize over all case length an loaded length. or if they can give me a meaurement from the canalure groove tot he tip ( if even has a groove ) .
MY goal is to have this round fit a 223 ak an ar mag perfecty an give maximum capacity it can wiht the longest bullets reasonable to use .
A thread about a similar cartridge over on go2gbo.com:
I have seen that thread . several guys including Ken howell who makes conversion cylinders for cap an ball revolvers has made versions of a 444 rimless or a 444-306 .
Ill get it done some day. Im not in a hurry I have lots of other projects first . the barrel is still sitting here ani sort of recall how I made this live round that in the box with it .
I have considered a wrist brace equipped pistol in a big bore more an more for hunting :)
I keep thinking about a 45-70 rimless on blown straight 284 win brass also . I have no real need to keep the case short the AK is not mag well restricted like a AR
The 45 raptor brass would be almost perfect for the 444 IMO it would give some IMO much needed taper over the 45 as well. the cases would be about the right thickness also .
I have been thinking more an more about getting this round done .