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12GA FH--Hairy Shotgun/Rifle--

57K views 425 replies 20 participants last post by  hubel458 
#1 ·
Some info you all may find interesting
in our 12GA FH testing and experimenting.
I'm visiting here and passing it on.Nice site here.
There are two videos of our 12GA FH on YouTube,
exploding big heavy walled plastic pails of water.
Not milk jugs , but 6 gal water in thick
plastic. with thick locked on lids........
The "Grampa's Cannon" one with a long view,
and "Grandpa's First Shot" a closeup video,
the first one, that shows how the top of heavy
shelf got bent. Later kids will do film videos showing
muzzle blast and recoil. We also have tested an
8GA FH, we made on an Enfield bolt action.
Also 3 ought buckshot from the 8ga load
goes through 2" hardwood ok. I will test
8ga on waterpail also, to see what happens. Ed
 
#209 ·
Tested 4bore with a double ball load of 1250 grains weight,
Used 100gr Blue Dot under 250gr of RE17, with card and
one fiber wad. 2600 fps. Recoil not bad, just brisk.
Used turned brass cases with shotgun primer, and cases
still didn't expand base. just size top..
Running about 23-25,000 psi.
The light ball load in above post
about 16,000 psi.. Ed
 
#210 ·
That looks sweet! You should snap some vids of firing that monster.

Hey I found more information about that revolver shotgun - reportedly made by Baikal. I cannot find the model on their website:

ÔÃÓÏ "Èæåâñêèé ìåõàíè÷åñêèé çàâîä"

shot guns over and under combination gun combo guns rifles air rifles air pistols airpistols air pneumatic bb gun Ontario, Quebec




Here is that link with the revolver in .410:

Baikal .410 ga Revolver Shotgun - THR

Baikal Revolver Shotgun





 
#212 ·
Some interesting shooting with 4bore.

Double 760gr ball load of 1520 gr total, at 2300 fps.

A buck and ball load, 6 45cal lead balls, 133gr each,
and a 760 gr ball on top, 1560 gr total, at 2300 fps.

Both loads 100gr BlueDot under 225gr Re17, In the
turned brass cases, with shotgun primer.Recoil
manageable, and like a big push. The sound isn't
a boom like regular shotguns, but cracks loud
like big bore rifles,at least twice as as loud.Ed
 
#214 ·
I got my 20ga FH 3.5" brass cases from RMC.
The case capacity in water is 234 gr.
It holds 215 gr of dense ball powder to the
base of 490gr 20ga hard lead slugs I have.
These cases use a 209Mag shotgun primer, and
I have mouth ID set up for .620 slugs as the slugs
and sabots I have are that size. These cases will
work good out to 35,000 psi, without extreme
expansion or resizing problems. Load of slow powder
will get 490 gr to 2500 plus at 25-27,000 psi,
6800 ft lbs, using the 30" barrel I'm getting to
put on the FBW Model L falling block.
! also have a case of the 3.5" factory Hastings
SPW, locked on sabot, loaded rounds to use.Ed
 
#215 ·
Here is pic of the RMC brass 20ga 3.5" with
Hastings 3.5" factory plastic case loads,
and 20ga Hollywood dies. Also slugs, Dixie 490 gr,
Hastings SPW and 900gr jacketed in the one case.

Second pic is the FBW Model L setup that will have
20ga 3.5" chambered barrel in a second one. This 1st
one is in my 585HE.It is falling block in one piece
thumbhole stock, an idea I come up with on my
4bore falling block. Second Model L will be built same
in 3.5" 20ga. Ed



 
#216 ·
Transition, biggest to a smaller, in
putting falling block actions in one piece stocks.
First one was the 4bore, the big one in
picture and after it was done I got a FBW falling block
and soon figured out I could do the same with it.
It is chambered in my 585HE cartridge.
And it is pictured above with the cases.
I built the 4bore, from blocks of steel.
The FBW is the Model L, and I'm doing second one
in 3.5" 20ga, to use brass and plastic cases.
And maybe later on when I find extra 700 barrel
we'll do my long 700HE in FBW....Ed

 
#217 ·
Here is picture of FBW Model L in one piece stock,
compared to a FBW Model S in 2 piece stock.
Both are chambered in my 585HE.
These two plus the Wickcliff 76 and Ruger #1
will easily handle my 585HE with proper
weight and thick pads. These guns have
rimless extractors and my 585HE goes in and
out with least amount of metal removal from
the feed trough, with much more power.
The Model L will have a 3.5" chambered 20ga
barrel to use 3.5" MRC brass cases and
Hastings factory or reloaded plastic cases.Also
I'm working to put a Wickcliff in 1 piece stock.Ed

 
#218 ·
I just won a rifled 27.5" 12ga blank on Gunbroker.

Oops... I think another project just horned into the queue.

Looks like I need to get with Ed about chambering, and see if he has any more brass to sell.

The Voices are saying "Maadi-Griffin in 12gaFH." And why not?
 

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#221 ·
I just won a rifled 27.5" 12ga blank on Gunbroker.

Oops... I think another project just horned into the queue.

Looks like I need to get with Ed about chambering, and see if he has any more brass to sell.

The Voices are saying "Maadi-Griffin in 12gaFH." And why not?
What the heck is THAT?!?
 
#219 ·
You can get 3.5" brass at RMC the cheapest and easiest.
Rob on AR makes the original for more. Here is setup
maybe easier to do also---
Here is picture of a bolt action a fella on Practical
Machinist built for an 8ga. 4 rear bolt lugs.Singleshot.
He used section of 20mm barrel for barrel.. Real nice.
Idea would do for 10 and 12ga also I think.
Has an aimpoint sight. Ed

 
#223 ·
OK I remember that now that you mentioned the guy's legal issues. For a minute I thought it was a 12 GFH build :)

I have a chunk of tool steel waiting to be lathed into a reamer but have been so focused on Real World stuff that it is lower on my to-do list than I would like it to be :(
 
#224 ·
This is much better than a 50cal Maadi,
as you have a huge bore here.
Here is picture of the fella firing his bolt
action 8ga that he made. He uses the
super strong, heavy duty, plastic cases
like we are using in the ones we made by
boring out NEFs to 8ga.Ed

 
#225 · (Edited)
I'm not building the Maadi as a .50, I'm building it as a 12gaFH. The only changes will be the bolt face, extractor, and barrel.

The 8ga is impressive, but the 12ga will do to start with. By the time I get tired of it, you and Rob will probably be down to 4ga...


New Maadi build thread: http://www.gunco.net/forums/f151/maadi-griffin-build-55746/?=#post591953
 
#226 ·
I'm working up a way to resize the brass on my reloading equipment. I have been busy with the Real World so unfortunately it isn't as complete as I'd like it to be. My goal is to resize them without fireforming for at least the initial load. The rounds look OK so far but I still haven't built my reamer to test :( I hope that later this summer when Real Life isn't so pressing I can make some more progress on this.
 
#227 ·
Are you planning on a D-reamer or a three flute reamer?

The 3-flute reamers have two blades ~180deg apart, and one ~90deg from them.

One nice thing about working with a 3/4 inch reamer is that it's easy to see what you're doing. The .17 caliber stuff must be like working in HO scale...
 
#229 ·
Well I have an indexing head for the mill so I can make proper cuts, and I plan to lathe the reamer to shape based on Ed's prints that he posted online. Then I'll put the shaped reamer the indexing head on my mill and use a dovetail to make the reamer flutes. There isn't much to remove honestly, so I figure that a 6-flute reamer may do the trick. I dunno maybe I'll do an 8-flute, depends on what my dovetail can handle.

I cleaned and trued up my lathe before Real Life kicked in and it has basically sat there waiting for me to get back to it. I think I need more carbide bits before I can cut it to shape.
 
#231 · (Edited)
- this is a slug gun in 50 cal?
- is the barrel rifled or the slug?
.50? We don't need no steenkeeng .50!

Robgunbuilder, Ed Hubel, and a gang of more-than-slightly demented gunheads over on the Accurate Reloading forum are building .720 caliber rifles. The ATF is okay with that, since they're legally shotguns. In the beginning they were using modified BMG brass, blown out straight, and with a rim added. They got RMC to make a run of custom "FH" brass, and Ed's been playing with plastic cases too.

12 Ga From Hell -WOW - Topic Powered by Social Strata

According to the ATF, anything over .50 is verboten. Unless it's a pre-existing cartridge like the .50-110 (.512 diameter) or .700 Nitro, which are grandfathered in. And they've ruled that rifled barrels on shotguns are okay, and still shotguns. And that even if you rechamber a shotgun to shoot a metallic cartridge, it's still a shotgun as long as it still shoots shotgun shells. None of which is particularly consistent with the letter of GCA '68, but we're talking bureaucrats here, not gunheads.

So, the 12gaFH is just like a .50 BMG. Except it's BIGGER! BWA-HA-HAAA! <evil laughter ensues>
 
#233 ·
The laws that clarify over 50 cal exemptions is Title 18-GCA 86. Shotgun
calibers exempt, existing in 86 exempt like 577NE, 600NE, etc, and those that
we ask ATF for an exemption for sporting use, which I did for my
585HE and 700HE, which many others like SSK, AHR etc have done
for their cases. And they go by .500" bore size so that all 50cals, with groove
diameter of .512" or less are not DDs.

Some have asked if the guy who made above
bolt action 8ga does them for others, no he only
did one for himself, and isn't a manufacturer.

Here is picture of a cast .504" slug BPI 12ga sabot
a guy made a few for me and it has good accuracy with
our slower powder loads, with the sabot working ok.
Slug is 440 gr and hard alloy cast with decent
meplat for good penetration.But it isn't too blunt
so it has good longer range capabilities when you
get the speed behind it. Soon be the deer season and
guys are still hunting for their ideal 12ga sabot/slug
setup for loading their own.BPI is supposed to have
a new sabot this year..Ed

 
#235 ·
The .504" makes sabot fit barrel tighter than .500".
The .504" lead slug I show for using in 12ga sabots is
one cast for using in .500" cases like my 499HE, by
sizing it after casting. Tried it at the .504" diameter and
it works in the sabot also. So it does double duty,
unsized 12ga sabot, sized and lubed in .500" use.

Some like short cases in big calibers, and have put up
various ideas. First picture is 12ga brass cases, two
2" long and other 2.25". Cases made by shortening
our cases we made by putting rims on bmg brass.
These can be used in Savage 210 and feed from mag
box. Can use 2.5" Magtech brass shortened so case
and protruding slug will be 2.7" overall and feed from
magazines of Savage & Mossy bolt guns. With 2.25" case
you can get 600gr to 1800 at least.Ed

 
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