Bud, you're reading WAY to much into my posts. I never slammed tapco ("When bent and fit, a tapco flat will work, there is no doubt.")
I only stated that I think AK-Builder flats are superior. So much so, I've acquired enough AK-Builder flats to redo all my home-bent AK rifles with them.
And really, I asked for enlightenment on the cleco fasteners with regards to assembling an AK. Never argued about them. I've used them and other fasteners in the past. Just because we have a difference of opinion does not make expressing that opinion an argument. I can say I won't refrain from expressing *my* opinion simply because it might not match *your* opinion. If that's arguing in your eyes, I offer no apology, but wish you the best in your efforts in any case.
rapid a word of advice, it is not best to try to fight with the old timers ; a couple of reasons that they are old timers is that they do not stir shit , and a general rule know what they are talking about. It would behoove you to stick around and learn . On a slightly different vein , it is better to be thought a fool , than to open your mouth and prove the theory ,
many negitive posts
this place is like a church it needs new members, fresh Ideas, money for site sponsers and ever time I post some thing your chimeing in and it not helping direction of thread ( some one may want a $12 flat from sears) some one way be interested in cleco's and other tools, Im not saying my way is best, But I am saying theres 2 ways to get to grandma's house:thankyou:
All we need now is Bob Villa to pop up in a Sears commercial
showing how easy it is to screw together an AK.
Now to the matter at hand.
Fact #1: Tapco flats are great, they do work. They function. Period.
Fact #2: Other company's flats work as well. They function. Period.
The difference is going to be your goal in your build. Tapco paved the way many moons ago with their flats, and as I recall are among the first to have ever offered flats even before builders were really bending them (mid-nineties). Consider them "first generation" flats. I have a safe half-full of builds on Tapco flats. They are tool steel (4130 as I recall) and "they just work". They do have some flaws that matter to collectors. First, the safety dimple is incorrectly shaped. The trigger axis pin hole is prone to warping when bent. The top rails are cut to final shape meaning there is sometimes not enough meat left for good rails depending on your bending jig. The ends require filing to square up after building due to the shape of the flat. The axis pin holes are based on a certain trigger geometry, meaning not all builds are going to have the best trigger pull and sometimes cause trigger slap. The dimples aren't as accurate as the original, meaning they can have magazine wobble depending on the rails used (and also meaning you must use certain rails to remove the wobble). I can't remember anything else off the top of my head.
Now that doesn't mean they won't work! Refer to my fact list above. Like I said, I have perhaps half a dozen builds on Tapco flats. You want an economical build you get a Tapco flat and deal with the issues. No problem with them at all! Just be sure to heat treat the axis pin holes but you have to do that for any build really.
Those of us who are building for the sake of authenticity are going to like the Other Company's flats - and not just any one company! - because they were built AFTER the "first generation" wave. Let's call them "next generation" flats. Obviously they modified their flats to work around the design flaws found on the originals. They are newer and obviously more improved... and that's that. Then again we 'collector builders' are going to only use rivets, only use certain kinds of paint, etc. etc. Again, the goal of the build is what drives these decisions.
Please don't read inflammatory remarks into other people's posts, we get that enough around here. We're all on the same team! Besides, grandma's house has been discovered by accident quite a few times on this forum and that's why I like Gunco! :D
Oh and BTW thanks for the call out on Sears - I would not have imagined they would have a broker site to sell Tapco flats! That's funny and cool at the same time!
+1 on hcpookie's comments.
Tapco flats are great!
I've built numerous 47's and one AK74 side folder.
You can bend, weld, pound, beat, grind these into just about anything you need
Ill agree to that, and on hcpookies post. My first build was on a tapco flat, and (this is going to jinx it, Im sure...) its still shooting strong. I have a bunch of tapco and ak-builder flats in my garage, and a pile of "scrap" (read: i F'd something up) slightly bent flats in there too.
i will say I like the Ak-builder flats as far as fitted right off the bat goes, if you get a good even bend, they will almost always fit right up with whatever your working with, whereas the tapco flats may need some motivation to fit.
Total off topic side question here... I got an older AK-builder jig. need to know what a part does. I have the mold, the part(s) you secure the flat too, the piece that fits over the mold with grooves ( im guessing to help give an impression of where to cut rails for the uncut flats), and this other piece, kind of big, flat piece of metal, about 1/2" thick, call it 9 or 10" by maybe 5", has two different sized pieces of square bar on either end. Can't figure out what to do with that part. Ill try to get a picture if no one knows what im talking about.
Hello, my name is Travis I have used Tapco flats. Its been 46 days since my last Tapco flat bend. Thank you.
Be careful. Bend one of those cheap Tapco flats, get one of those "parts kits" off the internet, some Dremel work and general blacksmithing, and someone could create an evil-death-assault-rifle! With a pistol grip and giant magazine. Even <gasp!> a bayonet lug! Oh, the humanity!
There'd probably be a law against it, if the kind of people who press for that sort of thing could imagine it was even possible without a factory, or at least a fully-equipped machine shop, union machinists, and a master's degree in firearm design and manufacture...
It is a trunnion, wait, no it's not
Don't forgot to double check the spelling, you might have left out an "e" somewhere