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Composite Lowers...

6K views 46 replies 10 participants last post by  bellson 
#1 ·
#2 ·
I like them.

I own one of these. They were made by the same group that made Bushmaster's Carbon lowers. Perfectly in spec, and the only issue I had was that I did have to slightly relieve the trigger slot to solve a binding issue.

Now, hold your nose. Don't barf. Don't overreact!

Made by Vulcan.

http://www.vulcanarmament.com/cgistore/store.cgi?page=/new/product.html&setup=1&ida=18&idp=1&his=0|1&cart_id=6151123.6816

$50.00 each. Sadly, a month ago they were $30.00 each. I should have bought them then.....
 
#4 ·
I think I'd slide on them, I don't like plastic guns, period. I've tried out Glocks, Springfields and ect, ect with plastic recievers and I just can't seem to get a feel for them. I've tried to like them but every one I've ever tried just don't fit or shoot right for me, thats handguns, but I don't like plastic anything and don't think i'd like one from my past experances. I'm sure they have some really strong points but just do not fit my tastes in firearms. You won't be seeing any engraved plastic guns in my collection any time soon!!!
 
#5 ·
yes i have one of these by Frontier and i have 6 by PLUMCRAZY who is actually making these for Frontier...

ive NEVER heard anything about him having a tie in to bulcan or hesse.

these are super good quality and we shoot them on every thing from 22lr all the way up to 50bmg bolt actions.

lifetime guarantee on top of that.

they are an awesome deal for the money
 
#6 ·
I don't know about any "tie-in"...I do know that the same manufacturer made the Vulcan Carbon lowers also made them for Bushmaster.

There are lots of reasons to hate or dislike Vulcan, but this is not one of them. Still, that is a smokin deal for a completed lower.

Regards,
 
#10 ·
I got a mill and a tactical machining jig...so I can turn out my own also, BUT this is a freaking deal for $99 and despite having to eat one more FFL registered weapon, its worth a roll for a hundred bucks.

I combined my order with 5 other gents at work so was even cheaper and my FFL dude is doing the transfers for $12.00.

score...
 
#8 ·
I watched some of the torture test videos and it seems impressive. This lower would be good if you wanted to go for a super light weight build like the katana on suns of guns BUT you can find the occasional aluminum lower in the $55-$65 range so id probably rather spend a few extra bucks and go aluminum.
 
#9 ·
I had a lot of concerns, which is why I only bought one of the Vulcan units. The price was so low that I figured why not try it.

Yes, these carbon units are very light weight. The color goes all the way through, so scratches do not show up at all. They are VERY stiff and sturdy. I was concerned about the pivot pin holes egging out, but that has not turned out to be an issue at all. I was also concerned about the buffer tube threads on the lower wearing out, and again, no issues. I have built and rebuilt this lower 6-8 times for various reasons, and it has proven to be a champ.

Don't get me wrong, I still have and love my aluminum lowers. But $99 for a complete lower is compelling to say the least. My cost breakdown is:

6 Position buttsock w/ spring and buffer: $55
Complete lower parts kit: $60

That alone is $115.

Add in a "cheap" Vulcan Carbon lower: $50

Now it's at $165

Plus shipping: $15

Plus CA. State Tax: $16 (No choice, the FFL has to collect it).

Plus CA. State DROS $25 (Dealer Record of Sale).

Plus the FFL handling fee: $30

Now we are at $252 to put it together ourselves.

Vs. the one originally posted: $99+15+8+25+30 (lower, shipping, tax, DROS, FFL).

$177 total, in my hands.....

Not terrible. If I were to order two or more at once, the per unit cost would reduce by $20.

So, I like it. BTW. Add $50+ to the original $252 if going aluminum.


Regards,
 
#11 ·
ok wanna back this up a bit and say that Frontier is getting these made for them... they ARE the Plumcrazy lowers which will also be a different name real soon.. and NO they are NOT made by Vulcan.

they are still coming from the guys over at Lake Havasu in AZ and this is complete with the composite FCG & LPK and the rear stock/buffer and spring.

ive got a bunch of these... and while i can crank out 80% all day long with a drill press its still no where as cheap as these for a complete lower...

likewise the FCG on these is VERY impressive.
 
#12 · (Edited)
@ $99 they would be worth a try. a decent stock and LPK would cost that much.


i"m still not crazy about the carbon-fiber lowers. ever see a carbon fiber rotor come "unglued"? they like to fail at the worst possible times--LOL!

if there brittle-- i would worry about where the buffer tube attaches to the lower--that area is where poorly cast or improperly cured carbon lowers break off most of the time.


i have been running a cav-arms polymer lower for the past couple years. it is a soft but rigid type of ABS/nylon. so far it has held up well enough.

buy a couple of um and bury them i the back yard!

this is a vulcan CF i am thinking--broke right where the rear pin goes through the lower.

maybe they come up with a fix after all these years???

what is a 'plumcrazy" lower made from anyways?
 

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#14 ·
I saw an Aluminum lower do that same thing...The guy did a mix and match on fixed stock buffer and spring with a decidedly short collapsible buffer tube. The thing just beat itself to death, and then fractured in the same place. Just sayin....
 
#13 ·
Plum crazy lower issue.UPDATED 7_16_2011 - AR15.COM

Plum Crazy Lowers - Page 6 - Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums


Plum Crazy lower - my quick review - PredatorMasters Forums

it seems the plumcrazy lowers had some problems as well. the FCGs are also plastic.

i found a bunch of pictures of broken plumb-crazy lowers. not all the pictures were at mall-ninja places either. the guy at Colorado ar seems to know what he is talking about. it seems he has seen more than one epic fail.


i would think twice on these carbon lowers. they ain't this cheap for no reason.
 
#16 ·
this is where i disagree with you..

and heres the story of why because i actually know this from fact & real discussions with the actual people behind these.


ANY AR LOWER COMBO SHOULD ONLY COST THIS MUCH.

simple as that. the ENTIRE reason the man came up with these and put them out was he was totally disgusted by the BS that the company's put out there and the price gouging that they all do to us... the purchasers.

They actually contractually LIMIT what can be charged for these & anyone caught charging more than the agreed price for them is removed from being able to sell them.

his entire philosophy on these is to make a little, let the retailer make a little and save the end user a little.

he keeps his price set, he keeps the sellers profit range set.... which in turn controls what "we" pay for them.

as to failure rates? he has sold 10's of thousands of these in the last 2 years. that part i know for sure.

has there been some failures? SURE. have ANY of them ever came back to be proven the fault of the style of manufacture? verses say alteration or application?

they are a POLYMER. not ABS plastic, not rubber, NOT VULCAN, NOT HESSE.

i spent a lot of time on the phone with the actual guy who makes these before he ever went wide open to the public with them to make sure that it was gonna be safe before we put them on our board OR before i strapped a 50bmg sniper upper to one. NO im not going to give you his phone number as he totally avoids this type of conversation and says the product stands on its own.

we've sold over a couple hundred just on the sites im on in the last 2 years with not a single complaint or failure and im not the only one who has put a 50bmg on one.

even if you did have a failure: is there anyone else out there giving you a LIFETIME replacement warranty on the lower and the FCG of their units?

these obviously wont be for everyone, just like some people wont own a GLOCK.

thats all fine and dandy, everyone makes their own purchases/decisions.

but you shouldnt run a mans product down when you dont know ANYTHING about it, dont own it, havent used it, never tested it.

hold out judgement until you have tried one out.
 
#18 ·
Hi Dutigaf,

Just want to say this....Hesse sucks. Vulcan sucks less. The V15 Carbon Aramid lower does not suck..And I have been reliably informed that this lower is made for Vulcan, not by Vulcan.

My point? I like the Vulcan V15 Carbon lowers. My opinion. I think they are great. I want to buy more of them. My Vulcan V15 Carbon Aramid Lower is just fine even after 11,000 rounds (roughly).

Just sayin....
 
#19 ·
Bellson: i hear ya bud.

but THESE ARE NOT VULCAN OR HESSE OR CARBON FIBER.

thats what im trying to get across here. someone just tossed that into the mix of the conversation and now these poor guys are getting lumped into someone else's mess.

NOT VULCAN
NOT HESSE
NOT JOKEN
NOT CARBON FIBER

but back on topic a little more: lets talk about that "plastic" FCG. :)

hammers:
its actually quite impressive and will light surplus stuff with no problem and that includes 5.45 and 5.56 with out even a spring change!

i bought spare Hammers thinking there was no way they could hold up... ive got over 5K on one of these already and theres not a mark on it anywhere.

trigger? trigger is no better or worse than any other factory AR trigger and the actual "feel" of it is more "square" if you know what i mean. think the actual pull on this is probably 4lbs or something close. but for thsoe guys who think they are snipers with an AR? they probably wont like it.

the discon: its NEVER failed or slipped and it is a very POSITIVE engagement. especially if your using this FCG in a conversion pack. not had one that didnt work with the hammers & thats way better than i can say for lots of other name brand AR FCG's that dont work together straight out of the packages.

for anyone who wants to try one of these? my garage is always available for fellow gunbuilders & you can make yoru own mind up.

but for someone wanting a lightweight, affordable AR with a LIFETIME guarantee?

its tough to beat $99.

heres a pic of it on my 5.7x28 which is a fantastic application with this...
 

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#20 ·
as cheap as these things are we should test one!

there is a kid out here. a 200lb teenager that keeps breaking the stock off his 10/22.

now if this kid can get one month out of one of these plastic jobs before it is in two or three pieces i would give the polymer/plastic the OK.

now this kid could certainly break a 70 series forging --but i think he would get a year or two out of it first.

we should start a pool and destructive test by getting Tommy set up with one!

maybe we should have a few side bets?? what ya say?--LOL

well i call Tommy a kid but he is 20 years old. he wanted to join the USMC last year but backed out cause he found out they did PT!
 
#21 ·
im guessing your way out west?

cause if your around my area and want to test/shoot these just let me know.

i live pretty close to Big Al and 555th.... so thats as close to saying my actual addy in public as we get. you can contact me for details if you need them.

one of the best things about these is when you throw one on the polymer 22lr upper and give it to your kids... the length adjusts for them adn the weight is not an issue.

it makes a squirrel slaying special. :)
 
#22 ·
i live in central arkansas, if that was what your asking. i got a FFL that has been transferring lowers for me for decades.

AR15 parts, rifles, magazines, receivers, kits: Plum Crazy Complete Lower Receiver, Complete Lower Receivers

notice over at CT they got five reviews and one of them broke on the front pins-- these are buyers that got their PC's from CT.

some of you polymer guys need to get a 0% forging from DSA and machine one out, that is some tough/hard stuff. just try it cutting/milling with an even slightly dull bit--LOL! to break one of these you got to work your ass off.

to get a polymer that strong ain't going to be cheap. with some of these( plumb crazy) breaking just taking off the castle nut that don't inspire much confidence.



i have had a bunch of plastic firearms. a nylon 66, several glocks, i once had a bushmaster m17S, taurus OSS and a cav-arms polymer lower.


ALL of them are made with another polymer that is not brittle and they were designed for the polymer used.

the cav-arms had a few failures mostly because some gommers put rifle buffers in them that bottomed out the tube when fired. and a couple came apart at the seems probably because they wern't joined properly. the cav-arms is mostly strong enough,though the thin areas around the pins are a cause for some concern with me. it is stout enough but i don't think it is as stout as a forging.

the cav is reinforced/ much thicker and uses a built in stock to get rid of that weak breakage prone castle-nut area.

sure you can make a lower out of anything --i could probably make one out of wood and it would work fine--for a "time" , a week, month or maybe just days, hours or even seconds??--LOL

i am not slamming polymers, but any polymer lower needs to be designed for the polymer that is used if it is going to have much chance lasting very long.

not long ago there were lowers for $49 shipped, LPKs for $49 and some cheapo commercial stock kits go for $29. prices are up some, the least expensive forgings go for about $60 bucks now so you can build a forged lower/stock/lpk for what???? $140-$150?

so if you have to toss the plastic LPK your going to have the same $$ in the polymer as the forgings--

so the economics of the polymer you save $40-$50 your giving up a lot of strength and wear resistance just to save $40-$50!

what i don't get about polymer lower makers is WHY they think they have to make an exact copy of an aluminum forged part?

you ever see a automobile accident where one of these newer cars with the plastic bumpers gets hit? my old-lady hit a new caddy a while back with her old 90s "beer-can quality" GMC van. the caddy blew apart like a broken egg and was totaled, had to be loaded on a wrecker in pieces.

the 90s GMC van the plastic grill broke and lost one headlight. she drove the van home.

that 90s van ain't known for strength or having thick steel either.


sure you could make a "good" lower from a polymer, but it ain't gonna look like a forged one and you going to have to use some expensive polymers and methods to get a durable part.

so when i see a cheap polymer lower that is identical to forgings --yea i hear alarm bells--

sure it will be good enough for some but i would not expect to be like a forging or hold up like one. there seems to be lots of "IF" involved.

it may last IF you don't slam the butt down too hard, IF you don't over torque the castle nut, IF there is no bumps or binds, IF you don't get rough with the front pins, IF the hammer don't ride the bolt, IF you don't engage the safety with the hammer in the wrong position--

they seem well "fiddely" to me. i keep hearing well theres thousands tens of thousands of these out there? well if your going by that how many forgings are out there? hell we don't even know but at least 10 to one on the polymers, probably closer to 100 to 1 or more a thousand to one sounds more like it.

i have seen many forged lowers run through hell by boots, dragged, dropped, tossed, run over, then return to the range and have the hell shot out of them, next day do it again. a GI lower probably sees 50K plus rounds in its 30+ year life. many on the training units will see far more than just 50K.

can a boot break one? -- i think i saw one break and under the conditions it broke i figure any weapon would have broke.


can this polymer survive a bunch of boots? last for decades of such abuse? and do it for $50 less??

that is the questions i am asking. the maker claims it is "superior" to a forging?? i am an old native american and i say "HOW"?
 
#23 ·
I think for some of us its the plastic over metal ( either steel or alum) glock vs sig, like wood over plastic stocks

personally I always prefered wood over plastic, until I started building ar's. I also prefered alum & steel over polymers, but all my modern walthers and glocks are polymers, but boy I love my alum sigs. I am old enough to remember when alum frames first came out, folks were not keen on those either

I am thinking this thread is more about preference than durability and structural integrety

on another note I prefer not to go through a FFL if I can help it, my reference to building my own ar lowers was for this reason. I don't have not problem going the FFL route if I see a minty Walther P-5 or P-88 in the glass case, but for a AR lower not me

sprat
 
#24 ·
Caddy versus van has more to do with age than materials. Car makers have learned to make cars lighter and just as safe by creating "Crumple Zones", easily damaged, pushed back areas at likely points of impact along with a reinforced passenger compartment. The car is totalled by design, but the passenger is kept safe because the car materials absorbed the impact. Your older steel cans may only get a dent, but more force of impact is transmitted to the occupants. The caddy took the force of the impact and disentegrated as designed, the van would have had more damage had she hit another 90s GMC.

Today we have airbags and totalled cars, in the 50s they had steel dashboards and minor damage in a wreck. They just hosed off the dash, put a new bumper on, and resold the car!

Buddy of mine has been wanting an AR for weeks now, got his tax refund check burning a hole in his wallet! I keep telling him, show me what ya want and I'll help ya build it for at least $100 less than what the dealer wants. Last night he brought home a flattop Bushmaster Carbon 15. The model with the Al type lower but made in CF. Popped the rear takedown pin, no open. Popped the front, it moved but the rear was stuck. Grabbed both pieces and yanked, the two came apart. The rear pin was not clearing the opening in the lower, either the pin has too short a track in it, or the detent pin hole is too far in towards the center. Ripped a nice piece of the upper lug off, clear scrape mark. Showed him how to take down the parts for cleaning, then reassembled. Still stuck! He had 3 mags, two AL and one steel Bushmaster mag. Bushmaster mag fell out like it should, you have to hammer the AL in with your hand. Remington oughta be ashamed that one got out. Light weight, though. Feels like a toy.
 
#29 ·
Mine is set to hit the FFL tomorrow...

Gotta make a run down to him, since I am betting that a transfer on base would not be a good idear...

Going to look at a Del-Ton lightweight upper for this. Or the Dissapator, for some reason that style screams BUY me.
 
#32 ·
j427x,

so you wont be coming over? thats a bit of a drive for you. :)

just like you can pull up pix of broken polymer lowers i can pull up pix of broken forged ones. its not that hard to do.

did you read about the one in YOUR picture? the guy put a bad buffer tube on it, mismatched buffers and got key strikes in the back where he bottomed it out... he BEAT IT INTO..... it was an UPPER PROBLEM not the fault of the lower... & yet even when admitting it was HIS FAULT... they still sent him a new one. as a note: he also received impact marks in his Aluminum lowers when he ran this combo.

but if you want to go that route then read this thread: Plum crazy composite lower...is it reliable - Page 2

or maybe this one...

Plum Crazy Lowers - Page 6 - Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums

and heres a forged lower to show it can happen there too.

no one said these are perfect or the only choice in the world, but the likely hood of a regular shooter buying one of these and "wearing them out" is not too high.

im not sure how much more torture testing past the 50BMG upper you could ask out of one of these.

then theres that "free replacement" thing that ive never had offered to me on a forged one.. or even a billet one.

there are things to not like about them: my main complaint on the polymer lowers is the trigger guard area... its too tight & too square.

seriously though bud.. im not exactly a noob in this hobby. im into actually BUILDING guns, not just buying parts & put them together.

look at some of my builds.. ive done 0%, 30%, 60% & dozens of 80% AR's... put out a free plate design several years ago so that people who dont have a mill could do these with a drill press.
 

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#34 ·
that replacement policy is great--i am sure many will get to find out how good their service is. hopefully before they change hands --again.

no i am not convinced at all. matter of fact the more i look at these the less i like them.

tell ya what --send one of these to my FFL and then we'll see. i'll get that 240lb 20 year old teenager a couple field days shooting one of them around the farm and if he don't fuck it up --i'll agree.

and we need to get some side bets going --any takers?

if everyone is so sure these things are great --this should be no-problem---
 
#35 ·
Yup real steel, is the real deal!!! And bellson, I have many more Mausers to go along with the one I got from you!!!! With maybe 2 more on the way soon, that will make #10+#11. I'm loving the one I got from you by the way, just wish the weather would turn nice again so I can finish getting it broken in. It went from 83 to <20-30 degrees with 30+mph winds for the last 8 days!!!!! And with no improvement in sight till next week, Sucks!!!! You were right about the 170 something gr projectiles, much better in that gun, the 150's hang up on the feed ramp, to short and they don't shoot as well. Still may convert it to 06 though, plenty of room in the mag and they feed much better, odviously I didn't chamber them, but they picked up nicer and I may go that route when all is said and done. Don't have an 06 Mauser yet, but maybe soon with that one, if I can find someone I trust to ream it. I haven't been able to shoot it sense putting the Millett scope on it yet. DOWWWWW!! I'm going to get a Zestava from Century in eaither 223 or 270, can't decide which yet, I'd like both to tell ya the truth, we'll see what happens bucks wise. Much rather have 2 of those compaired to a plastic Glock for the same price, just me. Keep it real, keep it steel!!!
 
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