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some idiot shooting fire fighters

4K views 43 replies 14 participants last post by  1biggun 
#1 ·
#6 ·
we had some nut who ran over firefighters with his SUV while they were responding to an auto accident his mother was involved in --i think it was three paramedics killed--

yes he was intentionally trying to run them down!

it seems the nut jobs are coming out of the wood work!
 
#7 ·
Christmas is a tough time of year for many. too many people are not strong enough to make it through it . Too many people have no place to go for help. too many people were afraid to ask for it when it's there. it doesn't help that the economy is in the toilet.
 
#8 ·
I just saw a news conference on it.The 62 year old shooter did 17 years for killing his Grandmother.
I just seen this article, here's some of the details.
And, see what happens when you let the bleeding hearts feel pity for someone, this guy should have gotten the death penalty in the 80s.


Spengler had served more than 17 years in prison for beating his 92-year-old paternal grandmother to death with a hammer in 1980 at the house next to where Monday's attack happened, Pickering said. Spengler, 62, was paroled in 1998 and had led a quiet life since, authorities said. Convicted felons are not allowed to possess weapons.

The gunman's sister, who lived with him, was unaccounted for.

Two firefighters, one of whom also was a town police lieutenant, died at the scene, and two others were hospitalized. An off-duty officer who was passing by also was injured.

Police restricted access to the neighborhood, and officials said it was unclear whether there were other bodies in the seven houses left to burn.
 
#9 ·
The 2 that died had no chance. The reports I read on firefighter forums were they were shot as they exited the vehicle. Arming them would have made no difference in the least.

I am not anti-gun but I do adammantly oppose arming firefighters. We have another job to do, not engage in running gun battles.
 
#12 ·
How would anybody know what chance they would have had? reports I read said SWAT had to rescue other pined down fireman. 1 of the men killed was also a police officer why wasn't he armed? the cop was likely the intended target to begin with.
 
#13 ·
The 2 that were killed, according to reports on firefighter forums, were shot almost immediately upon exiting their vehicle. The 2 killed were volunteer firefighters one of whom worked as a police officer, and the other worked as a dispatcher. When they were killed they were acting as volunteer firefighters. Hence the officer would likely not be armed.

If you listen to the radio transmissions one firefighter that was shot in the leg and back managed to escape before police arrived on scene with the aid of neighbors and his POV.

I was opposed to arming firefighters prior to this incident and I am still opposed to it now. Further, if they were armed how would ou propose they carry their weapons? In a coat pocket where it could be exposed to high heat? Or under their turnout gear where it would be virtually inaccessible? Sorry, it just is impractical and frankly not our job. Other than wack jobs like tis that set this up to kill firefighters we are still for the most part seen as the good guys and once it is known we are carrying guns on duty that attitude would change. That may be okay in your mind, but that goodwill makes it much easier for us to do our job most days.
 
#14 ·
HMMMM MAYBE IN THE TRUCK, CAR, IS THERE NOT A GUY THAT STAYS OUT SIDE AN DIRECTS THINGS?????? AN IF THE HEAT IS SO MUCH THAT THE GUN OR AMMO IS GOING TO BE COMPROMISED WHILE CARRING THEN THE GUY CARRING IT WILL NO CARE ANY MORE HE WILL BE DEAD. IM NOT DISAGREANMNG THAT CARRING ON YOUR PERSON WOULD HAVE A LOT OF ISSUES IM THINKING MORE IN THE TRUCK SECURED SIME WERE. IM SURE THERE IS NO ONE EASY ANSMWER HERE AN IM NOT TRYOUNG TO SLAM YOU OR ARGUE THIS NEEDS TO BE A CALM DISCUSSION

THE REPORTS I READ WERE SWAT HAD TO ENGAGE THE SHOOTER TO FREE THE SURVIVING AN THAT THE ONE COP WAS A LUTNENATE OR SOME THING LIKE THAT. ??????????? THEN WHEN CAN YOU BELIEAVE THE MEDIA ??????????

I HAVENT READ MUCH ABOUT THIS SO ILL BOW OUT OF THE CONVERSATON FOR NOW UNTILL I KNOW REAL FACTS. .

I WILL SAY THAT IMO YOU GUYS DEAL WITH NUTS WAY TO OFTEN AN YOU SHOULD NOT BE GETTING AMBUSHED WITH NO PROTECTION OR HELP. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME FIREFIGHTERS HAVE BEEN AMBUSHED. I DO UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERNS BUT ARSON IS A CRIME AN YOU REPORT TO A LOT OF CRIME SCENES AS AS THE FIRST RESPONDER. AS APARENTY THESE GUYS DID. IF THERE WERE TRAINED LEOS INM THE MIX OF FIRE FIGTHERS HER IS WOULD SEEM THAT THAT THERE TRAININFG COULD BE USED FOR PROTECTION OR AT LEAST THE ABALITY TO GET A ARM FROM A TRUCK ETC. AFTER ALL THERE ALSO LEOS . ?????? MY GUT TELLS ME THUS KILLER HAD A BEEF WITH THE COPS AN KNEW THEY WOULD BE RESPONDING TO THIS FIRE.

There are two kinds of people, those that are prepared, and those that suffer.
NOT SURE HOW THEY COULD HAVE BEEN BUT THEY WERE NOT PREPARED FOR THIS COWARD AN MAY THEY RIP. THIS STUFF PISSES ME OFF THAT MEN THERE TO DO ONLY GOOD WERE KILLED THIS WAY. THIS SHOULD NOT BE HAPPENNIG IN AMERICA


THIS GUY SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN LET OUT AN AMERICAS SOFT ON CRIME AN EVERY THING ELSE IS THE PROBLEM NOT THE GUNS. MY HEART GOES OUT TO THERE FAIMLYS ON THIS CHRISTMAS DAY. :(
 
#15 ·
1biggun,

The points you are missing in my post was the police officer that was killed wasn't on duty as a police officer, he responded in as a member of the local volunteer fire department. In other words he was a firefighter on that call, not a cop. Number 2, listen to the radio transmissions of that incident and the fact is one of the most severely wounded with a shot to the leg and on the back got away with the help of neighbors. He REPEATEDLY asked where the police were and was told REPEATEDLY to stand by. Until he finally said he was going to use his own vehicle to escape.

[video=youtube;b7VXwnyAvp8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7VXwnyAvp8]Webster NY Firefighter Shot Audio - YouTube[/video]

Finally, I do not want firefighters looked upon a quasi-law enforcement officers with guns. I see far more problems coming from that than I see good. What would you have the firefighters have on the rig? A pistol? A long gun in a rack like cops have? What? Sorry NO! That is not who we are.
 
#16 ·
i UNDER STAND ALL YOUR CONCERNS . BUT THE FACT IS TWO ALSO LEOS THAT HAVE HAD LEO TRAINING WERE AMBUSHED WHILE VOLUNTERING . WHAT MAKES THIS EVEN MORE INTERESTING IS THEY WERE THERE WITH THERE OWN VEHICLES. I DO FIND IT ODD THAT THAT THERE SEVERAL POLICE PEIPLE TERE IN THERE OWN VEHICLES???????? THAT WERE COMPOLETLY UNARMED. SEEMS TO ME THAT A LEO WOULD AT LEAST HAVE ARM IN HIS VEHICLE.

I TOOK THE TIME TO READ A FEW OF THE MEDIA REPORTS AN THERE ALL OF OVER THE PLACE AS TO WHAT HAPPENED . IM SURE YOUR FOLLOWING THIS MORE THAN I.

I JUST FEEL THAT BECAUSE FIREMEN DO MORE THAN PUT OUT FIRES THAT AN RESPOND TO ALL KINDS OF CALLS EVEN SOME THAT ARE ANIMAL RELATED THAT THEY WOULD HAVE SOME PROTECTION. EMTS,S BING THE ONES ID BE MOST CONCERNED ABOUT. IF I WAS A LEO AN A VOLONTER FM ID HAVE A WEAPON IN MY CAR AT ALL TIMES PERIOD.

IM SURE IN THIS CASE THERE WAS LITTTLE THEY COULD HAVE DONE BUT MAYBE IF BEOPLE KNEW THEY WERE AREMS MAYBE THEY WOULD NOT BE SUCH A TARGET.

ITS GETTING WERE PEOLE FEELT HERE SOULD BE ZERO GUNS OR THAT EVER ONES NEEDS TO BE ARMED TO THE TEETH NEITHER IS A SITUATION ID WANT.

ITS A SHITTY DEAL ALL AROUND IMO. WHATS NEXT POLICE HAVE TO RESPOND FIRST TO EVERY FIRE ???? ARMED ESCORTS O FOR FIRE FIGTHERS?????????????
 
#20 ·
1biggun,

One that was killed was an LEO, the other was a dispatcher. I am not demeaning dispatchers as I was one myself for a short time, but odds are he had absolutely zero LEO training. Many disaptchers are civilians and have no police, fire or ems training.
 
#21 ·
Death toll is three now, and they mention the firearm used


WEBSTER, N.Y. — An ex-con killed two firefighters with the same caliber and make military-style rifle used in the Connecticut school massacre after typing a note pledging to burn down his neighborhood and "do what I like doing best, killing people," police said Tuesday as another body, believed to be the gunman's missing sister, was found.

William Spengler, 62, who served 17 years in prison for manslaughter in the 1980 hammer slaying of his grandmother, set his house afire before dawn Christmas Eve before taking a revolver, a shotgun and a semiautomatic rifle to a sniper position outside, Police Chief Gerald Pickering said.

The death toll rose to three as police revealed that a body believed to be the killer's 67-year-old sister, Cheryl Spengler, was found in his fire-ravaged home.

Authorities say he sprayed bullets at the first responders, killing two firefighters and injuring two others who remained hospitalized Tuesday in stable condition, awake and alert and expected to survive. He then killed himself as seven houses burned on a sliver of land along Lake Ontario.

Police recovered a military-style .223-caliber semiautomatic Bushmaster rifle with flash suppression, the same make and caliber weapon used in the elementary school massacre in Newtown, Conn., that killed 26, including 20 young children, Pickering said.

The chief said it was believed the firefighters were hit with shots from the rifle given the distance but the investigation was incomplete.

"He was equipped to go to war, kill innocent people," the chief said.

The two- to three-page typewritten rambling note left by Spengler did not reveal what set off the killer or provide a motive for the shootings, Pickering said. He called the attack a "clear ambush on first responders."

He declined to reveal the note's full content or say where it was found. He read only one chilling line: "I still have to get ready to see how much of the neighborhood I can burn down, and do what I like doing best, killing people."

Pickering said it was unclear whether the person believed to be Spengler's sister died before or during the fire.
 
#23 ·
WELL ACCORDING TO THAT ARTICLE ONE WAS A [POLICE LETUNATE AN A 911 DISPATCER . FIORE FIGHTERS WERE PINNED DOWN UNDER A TRUCK WITH NO WAY TO DEFEND THEM SELVES AN OFF SUTY POLISE WERE TRYING TO HELP. SOUNDS LIKE A MESS .

THE PROPLEM IS THE MEDIA WEILL MAKE THIS INTO A BLUE PRINT FOR THE NEXT IDIOT AN MORE LEOS, AN EMTS FIRE FIGHTERS, ETC WILL BE KILLED. I FEAR WE WILL SEE THIS AGIAN UN LESS THESE WORKERS ARE NO LONGER SOFT TARGETS.
 
#24 ·
SO BASIUCAL THESE POOR GUYS DROVE STRAIGHT INTO A FRESH MURDER CRIME SCENE AN WERE THE FIRST RESPONDERS. THEY WERE AMBUSHED BUY A MAN WHO HAD DECIDED ON A MURDER AN SUICIDE BY COP AS HIS WAY TO GET HIS 15 MINUTES. HAD COPS SHOWN UP FIRST THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN THE VICTOMS LIKELY.

I SUSPECT HE KNEW THE FIRE DPARTMENT WAS MADE UP BY A LOT OF COPS AN I SUSPECT HE DIDNT LIKE THEM AS HE HAD SPENT A TON OF TIME IN JAIL. I ALSO WONDER IF HAVING COPS ON THE VOLUNTER FIRE DEPARTMEN DOSEN MAKE THE REST TARGETS ALSO. IM BETTING THERE ARE A LOT OF EVIL PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO HATE COPS AN SITTING NEXT TO ONE CAN BE DANGERIOUS.

I HAVE A FEW LEO FRIENDS AN THEY ALL HAVE A FEW PEOLE INTHERE LIVES THAT THEY WORRY ABOUT IF THEY EVER GET OUT OR KNEW WERE THE LIVED.

ALSO THE ABOVE ARTICLE HAS A PETITITION TO MAKE WI GOVONOR WALKER REQUIRE BACK GROUND CHECKS ON ALL SALES . THE MAN WAS A CONVICTED KILLER IN NEW YORK HE COULD NO OWN OR BUY A GUN LEAGALY THERE OR ANY WERE. ERRRRRRRRRRR.
 
#27 ·
The problem is you are supposing and making up facts NOT IN EVIDENCE...You know, EXACTLY like the media you love to rip to shreds for not posting facts...Things that make you go hm...
 
#25 ·
the real question the press/media fails to ask is "How is a convicted murder, who brutally murdered his own grandmother even CONSIDERED for early release or parole?"

this shit happens all the time, i have been griping about it for years.

it does get a lot more national media time if an "evil assault rifle" is involved in some way.

this guy should have been hanged from a rope decades ago-- but he is spared to reek havoc on the community once again by the liberal biased educated elites--

and now it it a piece of irons fault that he murdered these firefighters??-
 
#29 ·
Correct I am merely Giving thoughts here. My question you to you would be however how many times will this need to happen before you would possibly change your thoughts on it? if there starts copycat shootings like this continue to happen will you change your mind
 
#30 ·
My mind won't change. We are not there to be cops, we have a different job to do. I believe that if this happened where I work we would start to get police escorts. In fact the cops show up to most of our calls now unless busy elsewhere.
 
#31 ·
I believe that if this happened where I work we would start to get police escorts. In fact the cops show up to most of our calls now unless busy elsewhere.

SOUNDS LIKE A POSSABLE SOLUTION . LETS ALL PRAY THAT THIS DOES NOT BECOME A FAD. IF IT DOES THERE MIGHT HAVE TO BE A FULL TIME LEO ESCORT OFFICER.

I JUST HATE HOW EASY IT IS TO AMBUSH A COP FIRE FIGHTER PIZZA GUY ETC SORT OF THE REVERSE OF CALLING IN ARMED ROBBERY ACROSS TOWN SO YOU CAN ROB A LIQUOR STORE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF TOWN .

OR GET OF OF A PARKING LOT WHEN YOUR PINNED DOWN BY LEOS WATING FOR YOU AT THE 7-11 WITH SLICKS AN OPEN HEADERS AN TRUNK FULL OF BEER IN YOUR CHEVELLE SS ON A FRIDAY NIGHT WHEN YOUR 18 IN 1982 AN IF YOU DRIVE OUT OF THE PARKING LOT YOUR BUSTED . ( DONT ASK BUT IT WORKED I THING THERE IS A STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS BY NOW LOL )

ID HOPE YOU GUYS ARE REALLY PAYING ATTTENTION AFTER THIS AN STAY SAFE. I SEE THERE WAS A OFFICER KILLED IN WAUTOSA TWO NIGTS AGO SHOT DEAD IN HER CAR I HEARD . VERY VERY SAD. THE KILLER IS IN YOR NECK OF THE WOODS BE SAFE :(
 
#34 ·
Because of distance from the police station the police have an office there for doing reports and such.

As far as I know it is not necessarily a common thing.
 
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