well at least SOME of them were good!--LOL
Originally Posted by Sprat
there are things WORSE than a plastic lower--and that is a plastic FCG--LOL
the poor lower that snapped in the photo has a plastic FCG to boot.
i don't want to come out like i am attacking plastics and polymers --i suspect they can be made to work for a moderate duty shooter they might be ok , provided that the proper plastics, and reinforcements are made.
and you have to consider the market itself , as lowers are coming back to "sane" pricing.
i can see people in various socialist states getting these --while their still legal--
I am also no supporting or putting down the polymer lowers
I just wanted to bring it to everyones attention, they are now available in 80% and i have been having second thoughts about getting one or two
heck I don't see me burning out to many drill bits on these in the drill press plus no anodizing! and for serial no. just heat up with a propane on the selected number stamping dies
LOL thats true. if the were less pricy i might just take my chances with them but $70+$15 is $85 -- a DTI is $90 not counting S&H and FFL fee.
Originally Posted by Sprat
now if these was a two for one deal-- it would look a lot better.
some of these guys in communifornica ARE gonna want these as they don't appear on no list "yet" and i think it is still legal to build there or is it not???
come on sprat-- we all know you want one-- besides we won't know if their any good till somebody builds one!---LOL!
well like I have been saying I am done building for me, but heck I could come up to vermont and whittle one out for you besides its only plastic, it would be like childs play. I probably could use all those drill bits I wore out after this past december building frenzy
or I saw this today on ar-15
another little thought on the plastic lowers.
all of them i've seen broke were M4 stocked.
there might be a way to shore up the plastic lower on a rifle stock build, it might also be possible to do a little work on the buffer tube egg plate to add a little strength.
my guess is all the broken buffer attachment points is probably caused by over torquing a miss shaped egg plate on a flimsy plastic lower.
a thicker --machined fit egg plate that was properly installed would strengthen the joint rather than stressing it out.
a ill fitted buffer tube with a china made soft warped egg plate, overly tightened is probably trying to warp the plastic , then you get a side load from a drop --then it breaks.
a rifle style stock /buffer tube would go a long way to fix some of that.
isn't there a adapter to use on type of rifle stock to another rifle stock or was that some sort of stock extender
seems the new member polymer 80 is not taking or considering bellson idea, since most of cross post on other sites it would have been a great marketing tool and free and independent
we've had this conversation a million times... ive got/had 50bmg sniper set ups on polymer lowers with plastic FCG's & never broke one. the one caliber i refuse to own or run in a M4 set up is 5.56...
but i do everything else. 22lr, 22mag, 5.45, 7.62x39, TOK, 9mm, 45acp, 50bmg... its just like everything else in this hobby. someone can always tear one up.
im on the list for all 3 of those new types of lowers in polymers & mixes from all the different people out there making them... even the clear one.
WHY? because testing new products is one of the things i do in this hobby.. actual real testing of real product in real live fire.. not just words on a website.
will have some reviews up on first impressions & performance.
but then there is that thing that they still havent delivered on these after nearly 3 months.. :-)
polymer lowers? i am skeptical of um, just too much breakage. it can't all be user error-- though some of it probably is.
i suspect if polymer lowers worked the dod would have ran a few off for the squids or SF types , had Locheed Martin run off a few in their autoclave with the F22 parts. even then we might be hearing a few stories of epic fail.
i have seen a couple fail locally too. that don't inspire much confidence in um either.
i know a few who bought them never assembled them or fired a shot cause the lowers are for storage--now theirs hasn't broke yet either --but it could be a while before they build them --it ever. he them may break them with a shovel digging um up--LOL!
i do suspect a polymer lower could be made reasonably usable , the cav-arms is. i just haven't seen one with a m4 stock that wasn't worrying.
might work if certain points are beefed up enough. the key word here is "might" --
the plastic FCG parts that came out of the polymer lower looked like a big rat had chewed on um-- maybe it was made of edible plastic?
with 80% lowers still going for sky high $$ i suppose it could be a fun plaything/project.
maybe these are improved ? i have heard "improved-better and more durable" several time before ---LOL
i still prefer the steel pins... & mag release they are just stronger.
the polymer hammer? that thing has been impressive. i really thought that it would snap.. but ive got quite a few thousand rounds on several of these & the hammer has been very surprising.
the other thing that has been fantastic has been the fact that they all work together no matter which one you put into what.
the big complaint me & many other people have had for the last few years is that "milspec" ar FCG's.. especially the discon/hammers are just junk & you might have to sort thru half a dozen to find one that will reliably work with the other.
havent had that problem at all with the poly discons. thought for sure this would wear out quickly.. hasnt so far.
but again: i like the steel pins in them.
plumcrazy: the first brand i bought these have the textured surface.. cheapest and roughest finish.. still work, no breaks
frontier: these have a smoother finish and a steel FCG.. no problems here either.
Omni: these have the best finish and unless you look close people think they are alum... steel insides on some.. no issues
got another couple that are rough finish but forget the name.. plastic FCG's & pins.. no failures but appear to be the thinnest of all of them.
but then again im not trying to beat the door down with one.... never quite understood why people do that with an AR.. its a gun not a hammer.
aluminum is a piss poor hammer, but a plastic hammer is far more prone to break than aluminum.
i suspect these guys probably have used their m4s as hammers a few times --you never know what kind of situation you'll be in or what you going to have to do.
i don't recall any after action reports that read like " pvt moor dived down to the deck evade enemy fire, when he attempted to return fire he realized his m4 had broken in two --"
maybe plastic will be ok if you "baby it" -
-just don't drop it ,
don't use if for a combat drop,
don't combat roll over on it,
don't EVER use it for a hammer or a pry,
and when you hit the deck don't use its butt to break your fall-
-and if you end up hand to hand don't use it as a club--
to me that looks like an awful long list of "don't" for a military arm.
true civilians never do such things. in my line of thinking the small amount a forging costs over a plastic i it is easy to pick a forging over about any plastic.
i suspect the guys in the photo have used theirs as a hammer on more than a few doors and windows-- i have used mine to break out the glass wind-shield on a automobile-and other things -but i digress--
i suspect plastic may have a few advantages in some applications and a plastic lower beats not having any lower. lots of negative trade off though.
i am not sold at all on how "tough and durable" they are-- i an not even certain this nylon cav is strong enough for a real weapon. at least it is in the ball park.