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Thread: Women in combat

  1. #1
    Gunco Regular sovblocgunfan's Avatar
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    Default Women in combat

    First, thank you for your service.

    I have not served and am curious about what your opinions are about Panetta's announcement today. I have heard from more than one female soldier today ( one a marine sergeant on a female engagement team that just returned from ashcanistan) saying women should not be in combat roles with men because men will value the women over the mission and instinctively try to protect because that's what we are hard-wired to do.

    I dont know because i have never been there. What say you who have? Truth? Bull? What about gender-segregated teams? I honestly dont know but would like to hear your opinions. From the outside looking in, i say prolly not a great idear, and the concept is simply HR PC diversity politicking.

    Thanks in advance for your opinions.

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    The Anti-Terrorist Abukai08's Avatar
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    Well first of all... I'm a Marine meaning I am in the business of following orders. With that being said, if they say I have to fight next to a woman there is nothing I can do about it as I do not make policy I just enforce it as a leader of Marines.

    My only thought on this subject is this... The Marine Corps has been effective in completing the mission for 237 years. Is implementing this policy going to aid us in completing the mission better? If not and the only reason for this is to make a small percent (about 13% of the USMC is women) feel better then they are doing this for the wrong reasons.

    Any woman Marine who says it is for promotion opportunities should know better because they already know combat has a miniscule impact on promotions. So if this is for bragging rights or just to make a person "Feel" like something then all it is, is a feel good policy which it is a bad decision. This is the difference between someone making it home to their family and not a social experiment.

    The last thing I am going to say about it as a combat vet of both Iraq and Afghanistan to the women who are pushing for this is... Be very careful what you wish for. There is nothing glorious about combat. Knowing somone is trying to shoot you to end your life is not a fun feeling or something that makes you more proud to be you. Our responsibility is to defend the nation and, at times, take lives... This is not to make you feel like one of the boys.
    "What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?" -Thomas Jefferson-


    "Our rights come from our humanity and may not be legislated away -- not by a vote of Congress, not by the consensus of our neighbors, not even by agreement of all Americans but one." Judge Andrew P. Napolitano

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    Gunco Regular sovblocgunfan's Avatar
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    Thank you for that. Seems you have already put quite a bit of thought in that. I guess what kills me about this is the things you describe as the wrong reasons are precisely what panetta talked about as benefits from this policy change.

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    Always sore, always tired Bradrock's Avatar
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    My first thoughts as an outsider myself, is that the media is allready anti war/ military. When these young ladies start coming home in bags, it will be like pouring gas on the fire.
    Or taken hostage & raped by the camel jockies on live al - jazeera . You know....al Gores network buddies....Come to think of it.....sounds like it will play just fine with Obamas hatred for the military.
    Don't suppose he put a bug in Panettas ear on his way out????
    " Save a tree...........Eat A Beaver!"

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    The Anti-Terrorist Abukai08's Avatar
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    America withdrew from Somalia when images of mutilated men stripped of their clothing were dragged through the streets... No imagine that was a single mother of 2...
    "What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?" -Thomas Jefferson-


    "Our rights come from our humanity and may not be legislated away -- not by a vote of Congress, not by the consensus of our neighbors, not even by agreement of all Americans but one." Judge Andrew P. Napolitano

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    GuncoHolic Sprat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abukai08 View Post
    Well first of all... I'm a Marine meaning I am in the business of following orders. With that being said, if they say I have to fight next to a woman there is nothing I can do about it as I do not make policy I just enforce it as a leader of Marines.

    My only thought on this subject is this... The Marine Corps has been effective in completing the mission for 237 years. Is implementing this policy going to aid us in completing the mission better? If not and the only reason for this is to make a small percent (about 13% of the USMC is women) feel better then they are doing this for the wrong reasons.

    Any woman Marine who says it is for promotion opportunities should know better because they already know combat has a miniscule impact on promotions. So if this is for bragging rights or just to make a person "Feel" like something then all it is, is a feel good policy which it is a bad decision. This is the difference between someone making it home to their family and not a social experiment.

    The last thing I am going to say about it as a combat vet of both Iraq and Afghanistan to the women who are pushing for this is... Be very careful what you wish for. There is nothing glorious about combat. Knowing somone is trying to shoot you to end your life is not a fun feeling or something that makes you more proud to be you. Our responsibility is to defend the nation and, at times, take lives... This is not to make you feel like one of the boys.
    does that first paragraph also mean you would shoot civilians if ordered to do so!!!!!


    The Iraeli army has had women in the front lines for years, the soviets in WW2 had women in the front lines

    my only concern would be if I had a daughte old enough to get drafted? should they re-institute the draft
    Sprat and sprat1 are one and the same.

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    The Anti-Terrorist Abukai08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprat View Post
    does that first paragraph also mean you would shoot civilians if ordered to do so!!!!!!
    No because part of my oath was to obey LAWFUL orders.

    Not only is it my right, but it is my duty to deny such orders that would be deemed unlawful.

    Lawful orders and policy are two differrent things...
    "What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?" -Thomas Jefferson-


    "Our rights come from our humanity and may not be legislated away -- not by a vote of Congress, not by the consensus of our neighbors, not even by agreement of all Americans but one." Judge Andrew P. Napolitano

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    Firearms Accumulator Carbine Coyote's Avatar
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    We know that women in a combat zone are not immune from being casualties. But the one caveat in this new proposal is that they must meet the same physical standards as the male troops. I do not predict many women opting for infantry slots.

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    Gunco Regular sovblocgunfan's Avatar
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    ...
    Last edited by sovblocgunfan; 01-25-2013 at 12:48 PM.

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    Gunco Addicted for life j427x's Avatar
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    girls have been in combat for some time with the currently open rear areas and fluid battlefields. so far they have done OK.

    best i can tell even with the famous GI whitewash there hasn't been any glaring failures just because of their sex.

    i can see integrated units having some problems though.

    30 years ago i would have had a problem with it, today not so much. i figure some will be good enough. then again not all men can cut it either. i don't think they will be as generally good as men but their going to better than a empty position. i am sure some of the girls will be very good.

    i do wonder what is going to happen when large numbers of them don't come home in one piece?

    hell i bet 4th tries to re-up if the swamp girls sing up! LOL!


    many have mentioned the IDF . they have been effective with gays and females , then again their so short they have to use every trick in the book. one former IDF boot told me they take the gays not to be PC but because being gay was a good way to get out of the draft--taking gays fills a lot of holes in the line.

    LOL--

    in our case it is PC and a bit of necessity --they just ain't jumping to join the armed forces these days. they can now stick girls in some of these open hot spots.

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