Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: Saiga .223 conversion question

  1. #1
    Gunco Member christcorp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    51
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Default Saiga .223 conversion question

    This isn't really a "HOW" type question, so i thought this would be a better part of the forum for my question. I have a Saiga .223 which I've "changed" basically everything except the FCG. And I like it the way it is. It's got a new quad rail on the forearm; T-6 stock and pistol grip; decent reflex sight and laser and vertical foregrip. And the only real physical change, was adapting it to work with a Renegadebuck AR15/Saiga adapter, so I can shoot AR15 magazines in it. (Or original Saiga Magazines). And for me, it's the way i like it. I am thinking of selling it. Not sure yet on how much. (Just ready to move on to another project, and I have a lot of guns. Especially .223 caliber)

    Thing is; I have 2 friends that are "somewhat" interested in it. They are familiar with the name saiga, and trust it. They love the fact that it can use AR15 magazines or Saiga/Surefire/Promag magazines. Both are however dumber than a box of rocks when it comes to mechanical capabilities. Both have traditional AK's. They like my Saiga exactly the way it is, but we all agree that "For Them" the FCG should be moved up. This way it shoots exactly like their traditional AK47 7.62x39 rifles.

    So, my question(s) are, I know the price of the FCG from dinzag range from $40-$60. (I'll have to do some research on which is which, and why). Do you think it is worth moving the FCG forward, for one of these 2 guys, (Who I am not totally sure will buy the rifle anyway), or leave it the way it is, and sell it to someone who either A) Doesn't care about moving it. (Like me). Or is capable of moving it themselves. I figure that with the new FCG and possibly a new pistol grip, it will cost about $75-$100 to do this. Not sure if i need a new trigger guard. Not sure what a Saiga is going for that converted and has a lot of "Toys" on it. Especially the renegadebuck AR/saiga magazine adapter. Anyway; any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks. mike....

  2. #2
    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    PA Where the Amish Roam Free
    Posts
    14,039
    Feedback Score
    38 (100%)

    Default

    Can't help with the value thing, I guess it's more up to what someone is willing to pay.


    As for doing the FCG like a regular AK, Dinzag is way over priced, just buy a G2 set. If you don't want the BHO thing it just drops in. If you do want it you have to remove some metal from the right side of the hammer where the pin goes through, you can compare it to the stock hammer to get an idea how much needs to be remove.

    For the pistol grip, the hole is there for the T nut, just remove the plate.
    You could save the original trigger guard, here's a generic way of doing it. Wedge the front into the mag release and rivet or use a screw & nut at the rear.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

  3. #3
    Gunco Regular renegadebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    456
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)

    Default

    On the trigger guard, I turned the stock one around, jammed the short end under the mag release and bolted it down with a 6-32 screw and nut and ran the pistol grip bolt that came with the Tapco grip through the long end hole and a washer to the nut provided. Works great and they hold each other tight.
    .223 adapter instructions
    www.christcorp.com/renegadeadapter.pdf


  4. #4
    Gunco Member christcorp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    51
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Default

    Thanks guys for the info. I'll just have to decide if I'm going to convert the trigger group or not. I doubt I'll recover the extra dollars from it when I sell the rifle. So I might just let whoever buys it worry about it. Then again; I like playing too much with guns and might just do it for the hell of it. Doesn't look hard. thanks.... mike.....

  5. #5
    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    PA Where the Amish Roam Free
    Posts
    14,039
    Feedback Score
    38 (100%)

    Default

    Your welcome
    If you deside to do it, don't be afraid to ask any that makes you scratch your head
    "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

  6. #6
    Gunco Member christcorp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    51
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Default

    Coils and Buck. I think I'm going to take you up on your offer for Q&A. I could probably do some more searching, but it's giving me a headache.

    I've seen recommendations for multiple ways to do some conversions. All I'm wanting to do is simply move the FCG forward. Do it for the cheapest, yet effective. I think I've seen where some of the G2 trigger groups are already modified to co-exist with the BHO on the saiga. That would be preferable.

    Is there a link, off the top of your head, of the trigger group, already modified to work with the BHO, that you'd recommend. And is there ANYTHING else I would need to consider in moving the trigger forward. Mike (Buck) said I can get away with the original guard. I've read that in a number of threads too. I'm not worried about 922R. Between an american stock, forearm, and magazines, I've covered enough of that. I just want to see what the cost will be for moving the trigger assembly forward is going to be. Unless a person really knows their AK's, it's probably not going to make selling the saiga any easier or make my money back out of it. But I like projects. So, any links to the exact trigger group parts I need; preferably modified for the BHO, would be great. I'm not intimidated in doing the work. I had no problem with the AR/SAIGA magazine adapter. Then again; I asked buck a LOT OF QUESTIONS first, so I wouldn't screw things up. Some people say: "MEASURE TWICE.... CUT ONCE". I always say: "ASK THOSE WHO KNOW MORE THAN I DO, AS MANY TIMES AS IT TAKES, OR UNTIL THEY TELL YOU TO SHUT UP"..... Thanks guys..... Mike.....

  7. #7
    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    PA Where the Amish Roam Free
    Posts
    14,039
    Feedback Score
    38 (100%)

    Default

    I don't know of a link off hand that shows the mod or someone that sells the modified FCG (at a fare price), I'm sure with some searching it can be found on the Saiga forum.
    The G2 group works, it drops in just like a standard AK if you don't use the BHO. And all you have to do is file, grind, mill a little off the right side of the hammer where the axis pin goes through. You only remove the thickness of the BHO plate. It's really that easy.
    I'll look around then and see what I can find, I know I took a couple pics too but can't remember how detailed they are.
    To remove the original FCG I start with the two pins at the rear that go through the trigger and pivot bar, I drill them a little to thin the head then drive them out with a punch, once their out the front two pins are just like an AK and retained by the wire on the left.


    For the trigger guard, look at it and you'll see it's spot welded in the front and rear (might be a rivet at the rear, can't really remember), and there's also a screw at the rear that goes into the stock. Carefully remove the spot welds, I drill them with a smaller then needed bit then use a cold chisel to break what's left. If these tabs gets tweaked a little, a few taps with a hammer or smashing it in a vise straightens them out. The part that the screw goes through gets cut off later.

    The plate that is on the bottom of the receiver, and the trigger guard attaches to, comes off easily. I took one off with the trigger guard attached but I can't remember if it made it any easier or not?
    Once you remove this you'll see the holes for the trigger and pistol grip nut are already there, you can see them from the top looking into the receiver.


    Here's some pics of mine, the second post shows the TG and plate removed from the receiver. Click on the pic to blow it up.
    http://www.gunco.net/forums/f279/my-...oration-51426/
    Last edited by Coils; 04-09-2011 at 11:34 PM. Reason: added link
    "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

  8. #8
    Gunco Member christcorp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    51
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Default

    Thanks for the info Coils. I wasn't sure if I needed a "Kit" because of certain springs or clips or something that I needed besides just the new trigger and hammer. Basically; not sure what parts in the original saiga trigger FCG are reused and which ones are replaced. That's why I'm not sure if I should be buying a conversion kit. Here's 3 different triggers systems from Carolina Shooters. Not really sure why the differences??? The 4th pic is a tromix from mississippi. Definitely a lot to confuse me with. Thanks.... Mike.....


    Tromix modified Fire Control Group. Works for all Saiga Shotgun and Rifle conversions Kit includes a modified G2 hammer. Also includes a Tromix Disconnect Spring and Tromix Sheperds Crook for Axis pin retention.


    Modified Fire Control Group drops in for Saiga 223, 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 308 Rifles, 410 and 20 Ga. Shotguns conversions with the trigger group moved forward. Kit includes a modified G2 Fire Control Group, Disconnect Spring, Axis Pin Rifle Plate


    PERFECT FOR YOUR SAIGA CONVERSIONS.
    REQUIRES MINOR FITTING FOR USE WITH THE BHO LEVER. Replacement for factory AK47 trigger provides smooth, crisp 4lb. trigger pull and eliminates painful “trigger slap” common to AK-47s. Innovative trigger sleeve lets you assemble the trigger group outside the gun, then install it as a unit. Fits factory trigger and hammer pin holes, so there’s no need to modify your rifle.


    Saiga Fire Control Group for use in conversion where the trigger assembly is being moved forward on all Saiga models (except the Saiga-410 & the Saiga 100 Series). This kit includes TAPCO disconnecter spring, Tromix Shepherds crook or TAPCO retaining plate. Hammer has also been modified by Sandstone Firearms.

  9. #9
    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    PA Where the Amish Roam Free
    Posts
    14,039
    Feedback Score
    38 (100%)

    Default

    I wasn't sure if I needed a "Kit" because of certain springs or clips or something that I needed besides just the new trigger and hammer.
    No you don't, the "kits" are there for people that aren't comfortable modding parts themselves, if you can use a file to remove metal you can do this and save a few bucks too.

    Now I never thought to add up all the parts in those kits seperately, it might work out to be about the same. G2 is usually 30, the disconnector spring is like 5, (only need one of the following two) retaining plate is 10 (I've seen them for about 5 on sale), retaining wire 5.
    So let's see; With wire retainer is about 40, and with the plate is about 45. So I guess those kits that are about $40-50 and modded for the BHO isn't a bad deal after all when you figure it all out. But if you have or can do everything yourself, you could save $10-15.
    So all but that third one should work for what your doing, the reason I don't like the third one is it says "REQUIRES MINOR FITTING FOR USE WITH THE BHO LEVER".


    Basically; not sure what parts in the original saiga trigger FCG are reused
    The axis pins (like the standard AK trigger & hammer) are the main parts you save from the Saiga FCG. The disconnecter spring would be the only other item I can think of, you need to take the stock parts apart to get this out, look at that thread I linked to before and you'll see what I mean.


    Now to those pics you posted.
    Other then the third one, they all say they are G2 FCG, and I'm guessing the third on is too. And they basically all say the hammer is modified for the BHO.
    Other then that it's just the pin retaining wire or plate that is different.
    Now the 308 & shotguns need a little more work done but it's still simple if you can use a file/grinder, and we're not working with either of those right now, so forget I mentioned this.

    Now if you understand how the FCG works and you can make sure you can do this while being safe and not effecting it's function, you can use the original hammer and just replace the trigger & disconnecter, this way you don't need to mod the hammer but like I said it is easier to do then you'd think. Also remember 922r parts count if you use the original hammer.

    I've never used the plate, I like the idea but never used them, the sheppards hook and small hitch pins have worked fine for me.

    OK I just confused you even more LOL, just think it out as "I can spend the few extra bucks for less work" or "I can mod this and save a couple dollars for other parts".
    "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

  10. #10
    Gunco Member christcorp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    51
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Default

    Thanks bud. I am still a little curious/confused over #1 and #2. Why does one have a spring, and the other a plate. Can I use EITHER kit? What are the functional differences? And is #4 the same as #1 except that it doesn't come with the disconnect spring or pin???

    I would have thought that there'd be one way to move the trigger assembly forward, and just various manufacturers making the same parts just competing with each other. But it seems like there's different parts for different triggers. I don't want to accidentally buy the wrong kit, and find out after that it won't work or I need even more parts. Thanks... mike....

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Search tags for this page

renegade buck adapter
,
renegade buck adapter for sale
,
renegade buck ar mag adapter
,

renegade buck mag adapter

,
renegade saiga 223 ar mag adapter
,

renegadebuck adapter

Click on a term to search our site for related topics.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •