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Thread: Please look at these parts for AK-47 Build .. Are they ok?

  1. #1
    Gunco Rookie Turbo6ta's Avatar
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    Default Please look at these parts for AK-47 Build .. Are they ok?

    This is my 1st post here, so a big hello to everyone.

    I am seriously wanting to purchase an AK-47 (7.62 x 39mm). Well, I have been looking at the Russian Izhmash Factory 'Saiga' SGL21 series AK-47s. These guns are imported and modified by the Arsenal / Fime Group in Las Vegas. They are sold through a company called K-var.

    I went to the K-var website to find that a Saiga SGL21-61 that comes with a stamped reciever, and black polymer furnature along with a fixed Warsaw length stock retails for an amazing $1,199. Jeeze, that's about double what the price for a stamped reciever AK-47 was 3 years ago! ... of course, this gun is Out of Stock!




    Well, I looked around to see what parts I needed to build my own AK-47 comparable to the one that cost $1,199. I found the complete "Arsenal" build kit for $325. This is everything minus the reciever and barrel. I believe these are the same parts that come with the Arsenal / Fime SGL21.
    http://www.k-var.com/shop/BP-AK74US-1.html





    As far as the reciever, it seems like the Nodak Spud NDS-1 "EZ" should work well. This reciever has pre-drilled front trunion and rear block holes. Fits all Russian, Romanian, Polish, Hungarian, East German, Bulgarian and Egyptian guns with a fixed stock. Cost is $85.
    http://www.nodakspud.com/page2.htm







    And for the barrel, I looked at a US manufactured Chrome Moly 7.62x39mm 16'' barrel sold by 'What a Country'. The barrel is gas port drilled, extractor is cut, handguard retainer slots are cut and is non-chrome lined. It also is 14mm-1 LH threaded for all standard AK muzzle brakes. Cost is $130.
    http://whatacountry.com/aK-47-US-Mad...-Barrel-1.aspx

    So, with these parts, I should be getting the same gun that sells for $1,199 now for a total of $540 .... That's about half price!
    _________________________________________

    1. So, for you folks that have built your own AK-47s, does my list of parts look ok? ... any better suggestions?

    2. I am hoping that the 'Nodak Spud' NDS-1 EZ reciever wont need any drilling? From there website, it looks to be pretty much a finished item ... I just am not certain.

    3. Another question ... I don't own a bunch of Gunsmith tools. Do you think from the list of parts above, I will be able to build this gun in my garage with basic tools?

    4. Ok, one more question ... I understand that I will need to do some riveting on this gun. I do know a local gunsmith. Would it be easy for him to do the riveting? Any idea how much work that would be for him?


    Thanks a bunch for you time
    Ron,
    SW Florida


    BTW ... I believe the stock, pistol grip, and upper / lower hand guards in this kit are all US made. The receiver and barrel I will be buying are also US made along with a US made 30 round "banana" magazine I intend to use. That should satisfy 922r Compliance.

  2. #2
    GuncoHolic Sprat's Avatar
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    looks like everything but the barrel and receiver
    I never built a rifle from a Nodak anything, but I did my own receivers so I assume the nodak is good to go,

    you will need rivet tools
    press to press the barrrel parts together

    the what a country barrel is probably the same as what the other companys sell is it chrome lined ( does not need to be if you are only using smokeless non corrosive powder)

    this is for starters
    I am sure other will come along and give you additional tips

    make sure you get mags and plenty of them NOW
    Sprat and sprat1 are one and the same.

  3. #3
    Gunco Regular jimraynor21's Avatar
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    $30 Tapco trigger set will let you use surplus mags. It can be done in your garage with ingenuity but it is not necessarily easy.
    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.”

    ― Jeff Cooper

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    Gunco Rookie Turbo6ta's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for the info provided.

    It seems like this is really not that easy of a job, but by reading a few of the posts here, there are a good many of the members that are building AK-47s ... And I doubt that many of them are real 'gunsmiths'. Jeeze, we even have a separate forum here specific to DIY building on the AKs (this very forum I am posting on).

    Anyway, I am going to ask my gunsmith what he thinks of this whole DIY AK-47 building.

    BTW ... If anyone here knows of an aftermarket sheet metal AK-47 receiver that needs no drilling at all, that will work with what I described above in my original post ... I am all ears.


    As far as getting the correct rivets, is this what I need:

    AK-Builder AK Rivet Set
    AK74 Fixed Stock Fits: AK74 Fixed Stock w/Forked Trunnion $9.00 http://whatacountry.com/ak-builder-ak-rivet-set.aspx

  5. #5
    GuncoHolic kernelkrink's Avatar
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    Well, first off the Saiga is in 7.62X39 and the K-var kit you have linked to is from a Bulgarian AK74 in 5.45X39. Not gonna work if ya want 7.62.

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    Gunco Rookie Turbo6ta's Avatar
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    kernelkrink ... Good catch.

    I didn't even notice that at first. I really don't want a 5.45, so the Bulgarian AK74 version is out of the picture.

    I wonder if anyone is selling the Saiga 7.62 kits? I just don't want to spend $1,000 on a Saiga from K-var ... Well, K-var is completely out of stock on every variation of the Saiga 7.62 anyway, so I guess I couldn't get one even if I wanted it.

    Do you know of any quality complete build kits out there?

    Thanks again kernel

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    Cranky Curmudgeon zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Doubt you will find a "Saiga Kit". Really the only thing that makes it a Saiga is where it's built and the markings on the receiver. Otherwise it's basically just your garden variety AK.
    For someone in your position, I would recommend getting a parts kit from AK-Builder. They include a barrel that has already been fitted and headspaced, cutting down some work for the novice builder. You just need to add your reciever and compliance parts,
    http://ak-builder.com/index.php?disp...ategory_id=231
    He tends to sell out fast so you may need to keep checking or give him a call to see when more are expected,
    Certified AR-15/M-16 Armorer / SIG Pistol Armorer

  8. #8
    Diss Member netpackrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo6ta View Post
    1. So, for you folks that have built your own AK-47s, does my list of parts look ok? ... any better suggestions?
    The parts look okay, but for 922r compliance, with a US made receiver and barrel, you will want a US made trigger group, and if the furniture and muzzle brake are of foreign manufacture, you will need to replace at least one of them with a US made equivalent. Forget about the US magazines, most of them suck compared to surplus imported mags. And you want a rifle that is legal with all available magazines anyway. I would personally hold out for a chrome lined barrel.

    2. I am hoping that the 'Nodak Spud' NDS-1 EZ reciever wont need any drilling? From there website, it looks to be pretty much a finished item ... I just am not certain.
    The NDS receivers are top notch, and in fact all that I use anymore, but whether or not one needs drilling is honestly the least of your worries. You will have to do a bunch of drilling anyway, along with pressing and probably machining operations.

    3. Another question ... I don't own a bunch of Gunsmith tools. Do you think from the list of parts above, I will be able to build this gun in my garage with basic tools?
    Probably not. Building an AK, especially a virgin barrel build, requires some specialized tooling, a lot of specific knowledge of the design, and general knowledge of gunsmithing and machining/tolerances. Lots of guys on this forum have done what you are proposing, but we mostly cut our teeth on the AK back when complete kits with barrels were available cheap, and it took a lot less to build a functional rifle. And if you screwed something up, another complete parts kit was $100 or less in most cases.

    4. Ok, one more question ... I understand that I will need to do some riveting on this gun. I do know a local gunsmith. Would it be easy for him to do the riveting? Any idea how much work that would be for him?
    Depends on what kind of gunsmithing he does. Guys who work on hunting rifles, defensive pistols, AR-15s, etc, are not necessarily going to have a clue about riveting. Gunsmiths who specialize in AKs, class 3 stuff, and even aircraft mechanics are far more likely to know how to do good riveting. Riveting properly will either require a bunch of press/squeezer tooling which will be expensive if you have to fabricate it yourself, or it can be done with less equipment, if you have the requisite skills with a hammer (preferably an air rivet hammer like A&P mechanics use) and rivet punch, and bucking bars.

    Seriously, to build this yourself, you will need to be able to not only rivet the trunnions and trigger guard assembly to the receiver, you will also have to fit all of your parts to the barrel. The replacement barrels are typically made a few thousandths oversize, so that they can be fitted to the parts being used. The best way to do this is with a lathe, but I managed to do mine using a set of adjustable reamers, very carefully (I reamed the parts to fit the barrel, instead of fitting the barrel to the parts).

    Next, you need to press the barrel into the front trunnion to exactly the right amount for correct headspace. If you do not know what headspace means, stop reading now, and spend whatever Arsenal is charging for a fully built rifle. This requires a hydraulic press (which you will probably need for riveting, also), some additional press tooling, and a set of headspace gauges (both go and no-go gauges) for the caliber you are building. Once the headspace is correct (which may take a lot of back and forth on the press, or at least it did for me), then you have to drill the barrel for installation of the barrel pin. I am an accomplished AK builder with 10 parts kit builds, and several Saiga conversions to my credit, and I STILL screwed up drilling the hole for the barrel pin on my first attempt at a virgin barrel build. I had to re-drill it and install an oversize barrel pin.

    Then you'll need to press the rest of the pieces onto the barrel, and also drill the holes for their retaining pins as well. Those holes are easier than the hole for the barrel pin, but still not exactly trivial. You'll want to measure very carefully to ensure that the pieces all line up without any cant. If the FSB is canted bad enough, you can run out of sight adjustment at the drum. This is one of the first areas where other AK builders will notice substandard workmanship in a rifle that otherwise looks OK. Since the pictured kit uses a 90 degree gas block, you will need to drill the gas port in exactly the right spot before you can install the gas block. With an angled block, you can drill the hole afterward, which is a little easier because you use the gas block as a guide. It's still pretty easy to fuck up your barrel drilling the hole for either type if you don't do it exactly right.

    I really hate to rain on your parade, and I may be leaving some steps out, but this is one of those questions where if you have to ask, the answer is probably no.

    Edit: I also didn't see the bit about the kit being in 5.45, nice catch on that. But the above is still applicable to any of the 7.62x39 barrelless kits that are out there.
    Last edited by netpackrat; 09-03-2013 at 10:44 AM.
    http://www.boomsticksforever.com/
    Specializing in hand-built modular stocks.

  9. #9
    Gunco Rookie Turbo6ta's Avatar
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    netpackrat ...

    You have completely convinced me to buy an already made AK-47. I might start looking on Gun Broker, etc.

    In the past, I have personally done some work on my Colt Gold Cup to include replacing the trigger, but I am in no way going to attempt to build an AK-47 from scratch.

    Thanks everyone here for all the comments and info.

    BTW ... Here are a couple of photos of my Gold Cup:




  10. #10
    GuncoHolic twa2471's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard Turbo6ta. Nice Gold cup,,one of my favorites.

    Come on now,,don't get scared off on a build. Mostly you have to answer to yourself,, do I have the skills to do the operations required. Nothing required is really rocket science or overly difficult, but does require good "mechanical skills" ,proper tools, some basic machining skills and a serious amount attention to details. If you do it's really not all that bad or scarey,,seriously. Just about every single operation involved are basic and relatively simple.

    Most any really qualified mechanic would have the basic skills to build most any kit out there in most cases. It's not really not much more technically advanced than a transmission or a marine out drive rebuild, or motor rebuild. There's step 1, step2 , ect, proper tools, mechanical skills, proper information and having the right specifications,,,just as with any other machine that requires precise tolerances.

    Don't get scared off doing a build if you do have those skills. Even if you don't have all of those skills, there's a wealth of knowledge here and many other places to go to for help. There is also lots of places that can do some of the more difficult operations you may not be able to do for yourself, or not be equipped to do. Just be honest with yourself about the level of your skills, do allot of research and ask a ton of question, and then decide if you have the mechanical skills required to safely accomplish a build first.

    I must admit, I myself have never build a AK platform, but have done tons of other builds on mostly bolt/target guns and lots of semi auto pistols. I've done lots of accurizing, accessorizing and smoothing out of actions,triggers on pretty much all types, all my life as well as being a master mechanic in the marine field for >35-40 years. I've always been a gun nut and worked on them sense I was about 13-14 with my Pa. Who was a decent smith in his own right as well as my Grandpa being a top notch machinist, they both were a wealth of knowledge for me to turn to when I had a question. I did kinda have a leg up there in that respect,,having them there to teach me things early on. That same thing is available to you here on this sight and folks are more than willing to answer any question you may have. We have a GREAT bunch of guys here!

    BTW check out Dark Knights videos, they will answer allot of questions for you I think. I'd watched his segments before and he's a great machinist, just watch his techniques. That's the way it's done!! There's no room for "butchery" when it comes to guns.

    Don't be scared,,,but don't lie to yourself either if you don't think you posses the mechanical skills needed. What you don't know CAN hurt you in the case of building guns. You can't just pull over to the side of the road,, like you can if you mess something up on the car you just "fixed"!

    Again welcome aboard.

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