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Thread: SCOUT RIFLES

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Default SCOUT RIFLES

    THE RECENT RUGER SCOUT THREAD GOT ME THINKING

    LETS USE THIS THREAD FOR SCOUT IDEAS. DONT HAVE TO BE A BOLT ACTION BUT THE IDEA SHOULD BE A LIGHT WEIGHT FAST HANDELING HIGH POWER RIFLE . IT DOSENT HAVE TO HAVE A SCOUT MOUNT.

    ID LIKE TO SEE A CHEAP TO BUILD IDEAS .

    IM CONSIDERING A MOSIN NAGANT AS A CHEAP STARTING POINT WITH PLEANTY OF POWER AN CHEAP AMMO AVALIABLE STILL.

    HERE IS A LINK OF A COOL ONE I SAW ON ANOTHER SITE. CARBON FIBER STOCK WITH A ACE FOLDER AN PISTOL GRIP. tHE GUY DID SOME NICE WORK.

    ScoutRifle.org - Carbon Fiber Mosin 91/30 Scout "Babushka"

    HERE ARE MY ORIGINAL IDEAS FROM THE OTHER THREAD.

    I have a line on a rough barreld action for about ($50) maybe less the barrel has wear at the muzzel but breach end looks its perfect for a build like this . Im buying it either way if i can. at the bolt is worth 30 an the rest of the parts are worth another $20-$30.

    Ill use the trigger It has but reworked for free. I have a dragoon ???? that has been sported with a heavy wood stock but the reworked trigger is pretty good its two stage but its crisp on the second stage do i know it can be done to be some what better than a original.



    ILL likley just skelitonise a original stock i have here that was going to be scraped or add a really cheap folder or possably a really cheap ar collapsable stock ( $0 -$30)
    Maybe a amd 65 stock an a pistol grip. i like the idea of a folder im aiming more for a trunk/truck/boat gun an compact is a goal also it could be shot with out the stock opend if needed in a hurry if it had a pistol grip.


    Id chuck the barrel an reciver in the lathe an take off some metal on the barrel an cut it to about 16" this will lose about 2 pounds or so. cost ( $0) . If a psl in 7.62x54 can have a 23mm stub at the trunion an then reduce down to take that small RSB OD then id think a lot of metal can be pulled off a mosin barrel. Think a psl weight barrel cut to 16" on a mosin reciver.

    Id thread the barrel to take a AKM muzzel device like a AMD 65 break. they work well an there ($10)

    I could buy a scope mount for about $15 but Id likley just drill an tap the barrel for a rial or scope base Im thinking a NEF/H&R andi rifle rail would be just about right for about $7 im sure there are other amde to go on a round barrel just need the OD to make ther barrel fit them. hell as heavy as the barrel is you could just mill a flat on the top an screw down a flat rail.

    looking at the reciver an bolt it seems that a lot of metal could be removed from it a lot of the reciver behind the lugs could be milled away have lightening groves cut in, the bolt also could go on a diet the bolt guide were the handel is attached could be reduced by about 75% in weight the part were the saftey is can also be reduced in weight. the trigger guard could be made from alunimum an also have a push button saftey added an allow the saftey knob on the bolt to be remove. the stock tang likey could be reomved or eliminated if a folder or retractable was made to fit. the magazine is heavy but with out serious mods you sort of stuck with it. the good nes is you can carry the rifle at bu the magazine box pretty easy. cost of all the reciver mod ( $0) maybe figure ($5 -$10) for messing with a light trigger guard an push button saftey. that trigger chard is a very stough heavy piece alot of metal can be removed the back is almost a 1/4" thick.

    id add a bent bolt made form somthing for about $2. with a scout mount it dosent need to be bent but Im used to a bent bolt an it makes it easier to put behind a seat or in a case or scabard.

    im not sure I really want a scout mount but id try it an see my mount would allow a reai to go forward or cantalever back depending on how its bolted on..

    optics is going to cost you money on any thing you buy or build even if its a packace deal. so you cant really figure that in this build vs buy scenerio.

    It would be interesting to see how light you can get a Mosin down to. I have a few
    m44's an there not that bad as is. If i could reduce the weight an keep the balance it would be a pretty slick fast handleing kick like a mule gun. im betting i could get about 2 pounds or more off of it ( just guessing)

    so Id have $50 for the barreld action ( I hope )
    maybe $30 in a stock ( i have many but im figuring what its worth)
    maybe $10 to make a light wieght trigger guard with a push buttion saftey not nessacary but desired
    figure $ 15 in materials for a scope mount with a bolt on rail. I have a ton of 10-22 rails an other crap here so I wont need to buy any thing really
    $10 misc charge for finish screws etc.

    So you would have $125 total on a $50 reciver if you could find one add another $50 if you had to buy a complete rifle I think there still $100 some were . but subtract about $15-$20 for the parts you can sell of of it like the cleaning kit , stock, barrel bands, sights , etc Id likely get it built for scap an misc parts on hand for

    speaking of sights Id possably want a irons on this as well so add a couple bucks fro a rear sight of some sort . Id likely just mill it into the rear rail some how an run a small hooded sight on the front. hell some of those tritium vilas would be cool on a project like this.

    Yea you got to build it but it would be differant an unique an strong as hell. a sort of paratroper Mosin or tanker mosin. you would not be out much if you droped it off a cliff or it was stolen. yes a marlin can be had for about $300 but If i spent he extra on ammo i could shoot it a lot. I lkkley could build this in a a day if I had every thing laid out an ready to go better than watching TV

    any cheap bolt action can go this route. i just picked up a small ring mauser for $70 there are spanish mauser barreld actions for about $125 here an there.

    I like the cut down mosin in the above pic.

    to bad there were not rough mosins out there cheap. they must all get parted out????

  2. #2
    3/6 Infantry mtdew's Avatar
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    Thanks for starting this thread, biggun. The deer lease I'm on is about 90% heavy pine thicket, nobody hunts it exept around the fringes, and its covered with sign. Now if I had a short,light, fast handleing rifle w/ a fairly powerful cartridge with a low power scout scope(my old eyes make it hard to see the front sight clearly) that would be the ticket. Thats what I had in mind when I got the mosin. J&G has them for 100 bucks (30 extra for hand picked bore,is it worth it?) I still havent wrapped my head around the idea of hunting w/ a pistol, hence the scout project. I wanted to keep this as much like a 91/59 as possible, but after reading what u wrote about maybe being able to shave 2 lbs off a carbine I may have to purchase another and go that route. Very interesting idea. I'll be watching this thread.
    "NA BEAN DON CHAT GUN LAMHAINN"
    Clan MacPherson
    "CREAG DHUBH"!

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    3/6 Infantry mtdew's Avatar
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    Biggun, is there a flat on the barrel where the rear sight base attaches? Looks like theres one on my 91/30. Maybe a good place to drill and tap for scope base.
    "NA BEAN DON CHAT GUN LAMHAINN"
    Clan MacPherson
    "CREAG DHUBH"!

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Biggun, is there a flat on the barrel where the rear sight base attaches? Looks like theres one on my 91/30. Maybe a good place to drill and tap for scope base.
    __________________

    I DONT KNOW I HAVE NEVER ACTALY TAKEN ONE OFF. I ASSUME THE BARREL IS ROUND LIKE ANY OTHER . IF IT WERE ME ID JUST REMOVE IT COMPLETLY AN DRILL AN TAP THE BARREL FOR A RAIL OR POSSABLE DOVE TAIL IT FOR RINGS. LIKELY YOU COULD JUST DRILL AN TAP IT BY THE CHAMBER FOR A RAIL AN SCREW THE RAIL DIRECTLY TO THE BARREL.

    I DONT KNOW WHAT THE ACTION WEIGHS WITH A BARREL SO I DONT HAVEA CLUE WHAT YOU COULD GET IT DOWN TO. BUT THERE IS DEFFINATLY ROOM FOR WEIGHT LOSS. IMO THE BALANCE OF IT WOULD BE MORE IMPORTANT IF YOU GET IT TO A POINT YOU CAN CARRY IT ALL DAY COMFORTABLY. IT NEEDS TO POINT INSTANTLY WERE YOU WANT IT.

    ID TURN THE BARREL DOWN AS LIGHT AS SAFE OR FLUTE IT OR WHAT EVER AN ID MILL AWAY A LOT, FORM ANY EXTRA THAT IS BEHIND THE LUGS. ANY WERE i COULD MILL A GROOVE OR REDUCE THE HEIGHT OR WIDTH I WOULD. DRILL OUT THE BALL ON THE BOLT. THERE IS A LOT OF MATERIAL ON THE BOLT THAT CAN BE REMOVED IF A GUY WANTS TO. THE BOLT HEAD IS A SEPOERATE PIECE SO THE REST JUST NEEDS TO GET IT TO THE LUGS AN HOLD IT THERE. THERE IS ALOT OF WEIGT IN THE END WERE THE SAFTEY KNOB IS. ID MILL A SLOT DOWN THE CENTER OF WERE THE BOLT ATTACHES iLL CALL IT THE BOLT GUIDE.

    JUST LOOSING THE SIGHT BLOCK, FRONT SIGHT, BARREL BANDS, AN A LOT OF THE TRIGGER GUARD IS GOING TO BE SIGNIFICANT. A PLASTIC STOCK WOULD HELP A LOT.

    A SMALL RING MAUSER MIGHT BE A BETTER CHOICE FOR LIGHT WEIGHT. IM LOOKING AT MY SPANISH MAUSER HERE AN IT WOULD BETTER CANIDATE AS FAR AS WEIGHT REDUCTION. THERE NOT AS STONG BUT AT 75 YARDS HOW MUCH DO YOU NEED IN A BRUSH GUN??????? MAYBE CHAMBER IT IN 444 MARLIN FOR THAT APPLICATION OR 35 REMINGTON . IF MY 7MM BARREL WAS USABLE ID JUST LEAVE IT.

    WHEN i THINK BRUSH GUN OR TIMBER GUN IM THINKING ITS GOING TO GET SCRATHED AN BANGED UP SO I THINK SYNTHETIC STOCKS.

    IN A TRUE BRUSH GUN OR IN THE RAIN/SNOW OPTICS ARE LIKEY NOT THE BEST ROUTE. ID GO WITH A GOOD OPEN IRON SITE. YOU SURE DONT TNEED ALL THE BS THE FACORY SITE HAS HOWEVER. JUST A BLADE WITH A NOTCH.

  5. #5
    Gunco Rookie dogfacepencilneck's Avatar
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    Default scout rifle

    I have a MARLIN 336 with an XS Scout Rail and a 2.75 power Burris Scout Scope, it is by far one of my favorite hunting rifles.

  6. #6
    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    The deer lease I'm on is about 90% heavy pine thicket
    KEEP IN MIND IF YOU DO GO INTO IT THE DEER WILL LEAVE AN MIGHT NOT COME BACK. I GENRALY SET UP ONHTE EDGES. FOOD PLOTS ARE GOOD WAY TO GO. THOSE DEER DONT EAT IN THEM PINES THEY HAVE TO COME OUT FOR THAT.

    WE GENERALY DONT TOUCH THE THICK STUFF UNTILL THE LAST DAY AN THEN WE DRIVE IT. IMO THE DEER ESPECAILY A WHITE TAIL ARE LONG GONE AS SOON AS YOU ENTER THERE HOME. \

    IF I HAD A LEASE ALL TO MY SELF THE LAST THING ID DO IS RUN THE DEER OUT OF IT. ID BOW HUNT IT FIRST NEAR THE EDGES IN PLACES WERE THERE IS TRAILS GOING IN AN OUT.

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    3/6 Infantry mtdew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
    KEEP IN MIND IF YOU DO GO INTO IT THE DEER WILL LEAVE AN MIGHT NOT COME BACK. I GENRALY SET UP ONHTE EDGES. FOOD PLOTS ARE GOOD WAY TO GO. THOSE DEER DONT EAT IN THEM PINES THEY HAVE TO COME OUT FOR THAT.

    WE GENERALY DONT TOUCH THE THICK STUFF UNTILL THE LAST DAY AN THEN WE DRIVE IT. IMO THE DEER ESPECAILY A WHITE TAIL ARE LONG GONE AS SOON AS YOU ENTER THERE HOME. \

    IF I HAD A LEASE ALL TO MY SELF THE LAST THING ID DO IS RUN THE DEER OUT OF IT. ID BOW HUNT IT FIRST NEAR THE EDGES IN PLACES WERE THERE IS TRAILS GOING IN AN OUT.
    Agreed. But at this point we arent seeing many deer in the open, the thought is they are mostly nocturnal. The huge bucks folks in camp are seeing on their game cameras are all at night. I would like to do a drive but I doubt we could get one organized. So I would like to stalk those thickets w/ a small fast handling carbine. Its always been my favorite way to hunt. Got me a serious Indian walk. I have slipped up to within 10 yards of deer without spooking them. Yeah, once alot of shooting starts they will leave, but like I said, nobody else wants to go into the thick stuff so it will only be me.
    "NA BEAN DON CHAT GUN LAMHAINN"
    Clan MacPherson
    "CREAG DHUBH"!

  8. #8
    TRX
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    Jeff Cooper wrote extensively about his "scout rifle" idea in his newsletters over a 10 or 15 year period. I found an archive of them online somewhere and read through most of them.

    Cooper changed his ideas some over the years, but this is pretty much what he was talking about:

    1) a short barreled, light rifle. As light as you could get. The idea being that recoil isn't an issue if you're only making one or two shots., but you have the carry the sucker around all day.

    2) .308-ish power level, though he specifically mentioned 7.62x54R and 6.5x55. He favored the .308 since it was available throughout most of the world, but wasn't adamant about it.

    3) a forward-mounted scope. When he first came up with his idea, that meant a repurposed pistol scope. 1.5 to 3x fixed magnification. The forward mount was because he insisted on being able to refill the magazine from stripper clips, and the scope had to be far enough forward to clear the breech. (I don't think he considered sidemount scopes). The forward mount also put the scope ahead of the center of gravity, so it wouldn't get bumped by your wrist while carrying it. The low magnification was because he felt the scout rifle was suited for defense and short-range hunting, pointing out that, outside of the plains states, most kills are made at well under 100 yards. The low magnification also gave a wider field of view and quicker target acquisition.

    4) he specifically mentioned that a modified Mosin would be a fine scout rifle. Otherwise, he favored any bolt action, though he allowed that a box fed autoloader would also be just fine. He didn't consider leverguns at all, possibly because other than the Winchester '95, I don't know of any that would be suitable for the high power cartridges he favored.


    As the years went by he tightened up his "scout rifle" specification, but basically it came down to a light carbine in a hefty caliber with a forward mount scope.

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    GuncoHolic Sprat's Avatar
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    those spec's fit the enfield jungle carbine or bubba'd Mk 4, except the scope would have to mount near the rear, but the mags could be changed from underneath,
    the Mk 1 would work cause the rear sight is mounted ahead of the breech, so a bubba'd one or a indian 308 would really fit the bill, I like the idea of changing a fully load magazine then charging with stripper clips
    Sprat and sprat1 are one and the same.

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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    Hmmmm I'm sure he knew his stuff. However a removal mag is likely faster than stripper clips. If his main reasoning for moving the scope forward was to clear the recover then why bother? Having the option of a good variable in a traditional seems more logical. IMO the scope is less vulnerable over the reviver near the balance point as well. Going through brush barrel first I would not want the optic out there getting banged up an hanging up. Its also my understanding he used irons first an optics were secondary. A 2x scope doesn't help much is likely more of a distraction especially in low light. Id have to shoot one more to have a more valid opinion. For hunting i can reload my model 70 pretty fast in the very very few times 5 rounds were not enough. Never felt the need for a spare mag or stripper clips etch. I don't even have spare mags for my 670 pump LOL.

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