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Thread: Firearm Trust ?

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    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
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    Default Firearm Trust ?

    Will most likely ask a lot of questions as I get info together, but for now.

    When you set up a trust, do you need to do it with someone in your state or could I get it done by someone in another state and just have it finalized by a notary here?
    I ask because they seem expensive to have done here, been seeing prices like $300-500, I just think that's too much for such a simple document.

    If there's a thread some where that explains this, please post it.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

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    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
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    Zoom I got your pm and will contact him later to see what he says
    Thank you
    "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

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    Always sore, always tired Bradrock's Avatar
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    I just bought a Quicken Willmaker CD for under twenty bucks & did it myself very easily in a half hour or so. Had no trouble getting a stamp with it.
    " Save a tree...........Eat A Beaver!"

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    No Hope For Me Coils's Avatar
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    Brad, I've been hearing mixed info about using the Will Maker, it might be something that just started recently. When did you do yours up? Or PM me more info if you want.


    zoom6zoom gave me a web site to check, the guy is in VA so I emailed him and asked him the same questions, his reply was to use someone in your own state because of the different laws from state to state.


    To add to this, someone also mentioned doing an LLC, anyone got info on these? Seems more complicated then a trust.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem" Ronald Reagan

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    Gunco Member grumpy7mag's Avatar
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    Does any one know of a lawer in kalifornina //

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    Gunco Regular Rocster's Avatar
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    This topic has been popping up a lot recently. Below are some links to various info sources that may be of help. (no expertise or endorsements implied..YMMV yadda yadda)

    - NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog :: Published by Florida Gun Trust Lawyer David Goldman
    - www.californiaguntrusts.com
    - GUN TRUST ATTORNEYS ISSUE WARNING ON GUN TRANSFERS: GUN TRUST ATTORNEYS ISSUE WARNING ON GUN TRANSFERS - LawNews.TV (David R. Duringer, Prof. Corp.)
    - NFA Trust With Quicken Willmaker: NFA Trust With Quicken Willmaker - Calguns.net
    - http://arizonagunlist.com/How_to_buy...O_signoff.html

    Apparently for CALIF. (or other states with similar restrictions) the key advantage of a trust is it can own an AOW weapon (but not SBR or supressors) and if the State moves to ban a class of weapon already in the trust and stop the transfer of those weapons (like they did in 1989 and 2000) your family or other beneficiaries would be able to use and enjoy the banned items for generations to come. This is coming soon in CALIF me-thinks.
    "To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk."
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    Gunco Regular Rocster's Avatar
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    And here is more informational details from a Trust lawyer in FL: (again not endorsing, just for info purposes and I know we have lots of FL people here too)

    Below is a short summary of the differences and advantages of a NFA Firearms trust compared to individual ownership or a traditional trust. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have pertaining to your individual circumstances but feel that these are best handled offline for privacy reasons. We find that many of the questions involve past actions and we work with individuals and families to resolve these issues before they create liabilities.

    One of the differences in a professionally created NFA Trust is in how the firearms are treated in the event of your eventual incapacity or death. Most trusts name a "Successor Trustee". The problem is that although we name this person, we do not know if they will survive us, or be willing to help out. What we do know is that a close family member or friend will usually volunteer to manage our Estate and/or assets in Trust. The biggest problem and risk to our family is that this person will not know how to properly deal with Title II firearms and unknowingly create criminal liability for themselves or another member of our family. The last thing we want to do when we die or become incapacitated is to create criminal liability for our family and friends. (The penalties for each violation are 10 years in Jail and a $250,000 penalty).

    There are many problems in using a traditional trust when dealing with firearms. Its not enough for a beneficiary to reach a certain age prior to distributing an asset like you would do with a couch, picture on the wall, or bank account. You must ascertain the geographic location of the beneficiary, determine whether the items are legal in that state, determine if the beneficiary is legally eligible to receive, own, or possess the items, and most importantly determine if the beneficiary is mature and responsible enough to be in possession of the firearms. We all know that one of the most important things with gun ownership is training. We would never hand a gun to someone without providing them instructions on how to use it, but that is exactly what we do when we use a traditional trust. In addition, we put our family members and friends at risk when they carry out the instructions in the trust because most trusts instruct the successor trustee to break them law, when holding, purchasing, or selling assets by not pointing out how these simple actions will violate the NFA and create criminal and civil liabilities for our family members. Above is only one of the many areas that illustrate why a traditional trust is not suitable for firearms, much less Title II firearms.


    Below you will find some of the reasons why a NFA trust can be the best way to own firearms restricted by the NFA as well as the typical steps involved in the process and the costs associated with the entire process.

    Some of the main benefits of an NFA Trust include:

    1) The ability to tell your representatives how to properly transfer these assets upon your death;
    2) The ability to transfer assets to children even below the age of 18 at a later time while giving the trustee the ability to look at the child's mental state, physical location, and age in addition to whether the child is legally able to own, possess, or use the firearms;
    3) The ability for the Trustee to refuse assets transfered by will or other means if NFA and state requirements are not complied with;
    4) Requirement to comply with NFA and State laws for transfer of NFA related assets;
    5) The ability to make uneven distributions to heirs to conserve value of assets;
    6) The ability to purchase Title II weapons, without creating a violation of the duties of the trustee;
    7) The ability to use the weapons in the trust without creating liability to the beneficiaries;
    8) The instructions and formalities on how to: manufacture items under a Form 1, how to purchase items correctly under a Form 4, how to properly document and transport Title II firearms with a Form 20.
    9) Protection for yourself and your family from Constructive Possession - a violation of the NFA.
    10) The ability to add others to your trust at a later time and create additional authorized users of the firearms.

    Each NFA Trust comes with a Memorandum (users manual) which discusses many of the commonly asked questions regarding the NFA and ATF regulations.
    Because each violation of the National Firearms Act can subject you and your family to 10 years in jail and fines of $250,000 per violation it is very important to understand how to properly purchase, use, possess, and transfer the firearms that are restricted by the NFA. In addition to creating a custom trust for your needs, we teach you how to make the purchase correctly, who can and cannot use the weapons, and how to avoid the common technical violations of the NFA that most individuals, businesses, and trusts make.

    The steps involved in creating a trust involve the following:
    1) Discuss your goals, and what you need to do to protect yourself, family, and friends from violations of the NFA.
    2) Draft the trust based upon the above information.
    3) Review the trust with a local attorney and make modifications as necessary.
    4) You are taught how to use the trust, what it does.
    5) We tell you how to purchase the items correctly to avoid violations of the NFA.
    6) We teach you how to avoid the common procedural and technical violations of the NFA
    7) You sign the trust and send us a copy for review.
    8) You make the purchase and can make additional purchases in the future without additional costs associated with the trust.

    David Goldman
    Apple Law Firm PLLC
    331 East Monroe Street
    Jacksonville, FL 32202

    Tel (904) 685-1200 Fax (904) 212-0678

    NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog and Information
    Florida Estate Planning Lawyer Blog :: By Jacksonville Estate Planning & Probate Lawyer :: David Goldman
    "To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk."
    - Thomas Alva Edison
    |> Military training/history DVDs: www.loose-cannon.com/military
    Latest eBook: Build Your Own AK: Vol. II

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    Always sore, always tired Bradrock's Avatar
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    It should come as no great surprise that lawyers do not recomend the $20.00 Quicken trust that works just as well.
    " Save a tree...........Eat A Beaver!"

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    Gunco Veteran stalker1's Avatar
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    Hey there! Used to post as nutznboltz a few years back.we did a trade for parts if I remember correctly. .
    Been off the web due to health and financial issues but it's great to be back and see some familiar names.see ya! (

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    I just spent a couple of months reading up on trusts, and in the end, went with a Quicken trust. The NFA defines what is acceptable to them, and they accept Quicken trusts.

    The main thing an "NFA trust lawyer" will (or should) do is add an "Instructions for Successor Trustees" explaining what an NFA weapon is, who many own it, and how it may be transferred or sold. I wrote a basic explanation of that, and referenced the current atf.gov pages, with a note that laws change and my successor should familiarize himself with current laws before acting.

    Trust law varies from state to state - some states require a trust be "funded" when created, others require registration, most will accept any random piece of paper with a witness signature and some scribbling with a crayon. I can see how the ATF might get antsy with the whole idea of trust ownership of NFA firearms, but they're the ones who said it was acceptable in the first place.
    Perge, scelus, mihi diem perficias.

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