Gunco Forums banner

45-70 x25 tokerov :)

3K views 26 replies 9 participants last post by  1biggun 
#1 ·
I had to hear this ammo I bought go bang so I made this rifled adapter and presto my 45-70 NEF Handi rifle is now a is now a 7.62x25. the stuff is noiser than I thought. I made the addapter from what was left of a barrel I made yesterday. I dont expect much in accuracy the guy that makes these for other guns deserves evey penny he charges It took me longer to make one of these than it does to do a barrel. It fit the gun and ejects good and I extract the spent round with a pencil its 3" long.

Now what is the best way to clean corrosive powder out of the barrel?????? seriously I need to clean it i should have thought of that before. I dont even have a 45 cal brush.
 

Attachments

See less See more
2
#3 ·
I've been working on a pair of 9mm adaptors for 12 ga just for giggles and I agree that it takes quite a bit of time. I just need to chamber mine when I get time. I use hot soapy water to clean my hawkins and 1858 remington, followed by a half hour at 200 degrees in the oven to make sure they're completely dry. Others have had good luck cleaning their guns with windex with either vinegar or ammonia I can't remember which. I'm sure SJ could tell you.
 
#5 ·
Slick adapter there!

One thing to watch with the shotguns is how big the firing pin hole is. Some can let a primer blow out.

If you ever want to let go of that 45-70 barrel, let me know.
 
#6 ·
Hello 1biggun,
If you look at the loadings of these two cartridges, the .410 guage vs the 7.62x25mm Tokarev you notice some interesting things.

From Barnes, Cartridges of The World I notice that the 7.62x25 mm Mauser/Tokarev has been loaded with 86 to 100 grain bullets driven by 5.2 to 4.7 grains of Bullseye.

The .410 shotgun slug round has been loaded 85 to 90 grain slug driven by up to 14.6 grains of 2400 powder or 16 grains of 4227 powder. Shotshell powders are very similar to pistol powders.

The camparison seems to show a several times greater load for the .410 ammo. Thus a 7.62x25mm barelled .410 action seems reasonable. So does using an adapter to the Tokarev/Mauser round in a .410 shotgun.

VD
 
#7 ·
I plan on making a barrel for this gun in x25 down the road by boring out a rifle barrel or installing a rifle barrel in a cut off shot gun barrel perminatly. hmmm better think about the legalitys of cutting the Shot gun barrel. it migth be illegal for the short time its just a stub. a good fitting insert that is long would work pretty well I suspect. the same company that makes all the addapters makes barrel inserts for shot guns.

I may just make a longer barrel insert for the 45-70. I dont like the idea of the steel to steel touching inside the barrel perhaps orings or some other insulater. Im not sure a can turn a long insert on my lathe with out bending it or excesive flexing with out some kind of follow support that I dont have. its pretty thin were it goes down the barrel in a 45-70. in a shot gun bigger than a .410 it would be easy. a 20 guage wold be a ideal canidate as a light tace off barrel would work and then there would be room for a ejector . I need a 20 GA barrel for a handi rifle. a 16" barreld x25 would be a great gun for my kid to shoot cheaply and would be a good take down/ trunk gun/ survival rifle.

those Rossi,s are pretty cheap hmmmmmmm
 
#8 ·
1biggun,

I do a lot of black power shooting and plain old very hot soapy water should do a better job than just about anything else for cleaning the corrosive salts out of that barrel. It has worked on my Hawkin and inline for many years. I follow with a few dry patches then use a little borebutter on the last patch.
 
#9 ·
The camparison seems to show a several times greater load for the .410 ammo. Thus a 7.62x25mm barelled .410 action seems reasonable. So does using an adapter to the Tokarev/Mauser round in a .410 shotgun
.

a insert barrel wold be really thin not sure it could be done. it might not handel the pressure. a 3" rifled addapter that dont go into the bore would be doable.

Slick adapter there!

One thing to watch with the shotguns is how big the firing pin hole is. Some can let a primer blow out.

If you ever want to let go of that 45-70 barrel, let me know.
__________________

Its the only barrel I got for it right now, I wish I had known I could have gotten a identical gun a month ago for $150 I passsed due to not having extra cash. Ill likely just add a shot gun barel to my rifle reciver the factory offers that option but dont let you make rifles into shot guns. maybe Ill get a 500 s&W barrel and make a long barrel insert for it. if some one would sell a single shot in x25 they would sell like crazy. rossi or H&R are missing out. reminton has a cheap single shot now I think also. I can make addapter for a 308 but I dont want the excessive free bore. I wish H&R would just make a barrel for what I have.

I may sell this sell this adapter and make a longer one
 
#10 ·
yea I need to get some large bore mops and brushes ect. this ammo is really dirty tons of crud in the barrel. its rommy ammo susposedly the case is stampes 22 ans 85 on it the box says cartuse pentru ?????? Ill wash er out with some soapy atter windex and then oil it. i just ran a 410 brush and mob down the 45-70 bore with water and soap windex blew it dry with compressed water seperted air and remoiled it. the addapter I just used my normal stuff. mission acomplished. I hadent planed on cleaning gun today LOL. how anti corrsion resistant is stainless stell on this ammo?????? perhaps a stainless barrel would be the cats ass.
 
#11 ·
+1 on the hot soapy water. The water removes the potassium chloride from the spent primer (salt, the corrosive part), the soap cleans some of the spent powder residue, and the hot makes it dry faster.

The Windex thing came up when guys wanted something for use at the range, for a quick clean and oil before packing up for home. Ammonia doesn't "neutralize" anything, the potassium salt left by shooting ammo primed with corrosive primers is the product of the neutralization of an acid and a base, it can't be neutralized, only dissolved. Ammonia DOES act like a soap, makes water wetter to dissolve and clean better. You could use soapy water as well. Just make sure the bore is dry and oiled after.

Hoppe's works not so much in neutralizing but in cleaning. Clean the corrosive crap out of the bore, it doesn't matter how, dry the bore if wet, and oil. Done deal.
 
#13 ·
Im not sure I could could copy the exterior of a 7.62x 54R round It may be doable by just making it fit the rim and the throat of the chamber and leave the rest in between smaller than the chamber. this may be easier than I think. I dont have a mosin But all I really need is a round. HMMMMMMMM these dont need to be rifled so they can be made from round tubing of some sort. the chamber may need (likely) to support the addapter hmmmmm I need to think here . Id contact the addapter guy in alaskia and see if he can make one. he shows 30 mauser to 30-06 it would be a good round canidate for due to the rim so it could extract easly. Im looking at a reall bent up case now I wish i had a live round to measure. it dont need to head spaace on the neck so it may not be that bad. BUY ME A MOSIN BARRELD ACTION AND iLL MAKE YOU A ADAPTER LOL:) tHIS CANT BE THAT HARD ?????????? LET ME THINK ABOUT THIS A LITTLE. NEED SEAMLESS TUBING OR i COULD JUST BORE/DRILL A TUBE A FEW LIVE ROUNDS AND A BARREL OR BETTER A WHOLE GUN HEY NO PROBLEM. :) I SUSPOSE i COULD MAIL IT TO YOU FOR LIKE 50 CENTS AND SEE IF IT FITS AND THEN ADJUST IT. IF YOU HAVE LATHE i COULD CHAMBER A BLANK FOR YOU ALSO.
 
#14 ·
You want some rounds? I can handle that.

You want a Mosin shipped to you in exchange for an 7.62x25 adapter. Hell, I can manage THAT! LMK.

No lathe, else I would have already built one!
 
#15 ·
I've emailed the adapter company in Alaska but they've not responded.

There would be a huge demand for 7.62x25 fired in any 30 caliber -- the ammo cost difference of a dime to a dollar.
 
#16 ·
You want some rounds? I can handle that.

You want a Mosin shipped to you in exchange for an 7.62x25 adapter. Hell, I can manage THAT! LMK.

No lathe, else I would have already built one!
IF YOU WANT TO SEND ME AROUND ill SEE WHAT i CAN DO i WISH i HAD A GUN TO FIT IT INTO. iVE SEEN THOSE BARRELLS WITH THE CUT RECIVERS CHEAP. iD LIKE A GUN BUT i JUST CSANT AFFORD ANY THING RIGHT NOW ITS GETTING BAD. WHAT i REALLY NEED IS A DUMMY ROUND WITH THE THE PRIMER REMOVED TO I CAN GET IT INTO THE LATHE AND USE THE PRIMER POCKET TO CENTER IT. THAT WAY i CAN SET UP THE TOOL POST AT THE SAME ANGLE AS THE CASE. DO YOU RELOAD FOR THIS?? A DUMMY ROUND COULD BE MAILED THROUGHT THE USPS CHEAPLY IN A SIMPLE ENVELOPE. HAVING THE PRIMER OUT WOULD HELP. PM ME AND iLL SEE WHAT i CAN DO. iD LOE TO GET ME A GUN SO i COUD TEST FIRE AND BE SURE THE THING WORKS.

i LOOKED AT RECHAMBERING SOME OF THE ADDDAPTERS THAT SPORTSMAN GUIDE SELLS FOR THE 308 AND THE 30-06 TO SHOOT 32 AUTO BUT I THINK THE EXTRACTION GROOVE WOULD BE PRETTY CLOSE TO THE NEWLY CUT CHAMBER. THE INSERSTS THAT THAT GUY IN ALASKA MAKES ARE LOCKTITED IN AND HAVE NO EXTRACTOR GROOVE. i CAN LIKELY MAKE ONE OF THE SPORTS MANGICE ADPTERS WORK IF i REMOVED THE RIM AMD LOCKTIGHTED IT NINTO MY 30-06 BARREL BUT THEN YOU GOT A ADDAPTER IN A EXPENSIVE GUN THAT REQUIRES A BROKEN CASE EXTRACTOR TO REMOVE AND AND AREA THAT CORROSIVE AMMO CRAP LIKLEY CANT BE REMOVED. NOT IN MY DEER RIFLES IS THIS GOING TO HAPPEN. THE MOSIN HAS A RIM SO THERE WOULD BE NO PROBLEM WITH CLEARANCES AND ALSOTHEN THE ADDAPTER WOULD COME OUT EVRY TOME IT WAS FIRED LIKE A NORMAL ROUND AND THE BARREL COULD BE CLEANED EASLY AND THE SWITH OVER TAKES SECONDS. IF A GUY AHD A HAND FULL OF ADDAPTERS THEN HE COULD ENEN SHOOT IT FAST. ID RECOMEND A SHELL CATCHER.

iD BE ALOT MORE ENTHUSTAIC IF I ACTUALY HAD A MOSIN. i BET MY BOY WOULD LOVE A CUT DOWN KIDS VERSION ON A SPORTERISED STOCK I SURE WOULD A 16" BARRELD SCOUT STYLE MOSIN WITH LIGHT BARREL AND STOCK WITH CHAMBER ADDAPTER WOULD BE A GOOD XMASS GIFT FOR HIM... WERE ARE THE CHEAP MOSINS AT THESE DAYS OR POSSABLY JUST A BARRELD COMPLETE ACTION BARREL MUST BE GOOD ?????? THAT NEEDS A STOCK??? OK EXCITEMENT SETTING IN. WITH REDUCED LOAD FULL SIZE ROUND HE COULD USE IT FOR A DEER STAAND GUN AT CLOSE RANGE AS WELL IN A COUPLE YEARS. i SURE DONT NEED ANY MORE PROJECTS.

i WONDER WHAT KIND OF ACCURACY A ADDAPTER WOULD GIVE??? i HAVE A BARREL THAT iM MAKING A SHOOT GUN INSERT FOR THAT WILL BE 16" LONG THE GUN DONT HAVE SIGHT UNFORTUNATLY OR A SCOPE MOUNT SO iM NIT SURE HOW GOOD ILL BE ABLE TO SHOOT IT. IM LOOKING FOR A 20 OR 12 GA HANDI RIFLE BARREL THATS DRILLED AND TAPPED FOR A RAIL.
 
#21 ·
im pretty sure it will work in a 7.62x54 what im not sure of is what keeps it from splitting were its only .013 thick or so were it duplicated the neck of a round. Im thinling the addapter needs to be a pretty snug fit so that if it expands it is supported by the barrel. Im also conserned that it might get stuck and not easly come out. most of the adddapters ive seen are made to semi perminatly loctite into the chamber. the 32 auto adapters for the 308 and 30-06 that sports mans guide sells how ever are made to extract like a normal round after each firing. I have a couple of them and they dont fit all my guns BTW three on the tight side. on a 7.62x25 to 54r addapter I have to worry about it trying to fire down the barrel ans breaking the rim as well. that round head spaces on the rim not the shoulder so when the round goes off the adapter will be seeing pressure on the rim. an ideal addapter would seat against the shoulder and the rim simotaniously. that pretty tough to do when every chamber is differant. now if the addapter was made with no rim and loctighted in it would be simpler just leave the rim off and make it fit to the shoulder.

I see the case has a rounded face. Why? is the bolt face flat like a normal rifle? I will want the most material i can have there and if the addapter was made flat across the face it would be stronger. having a barrel stub that I could split down the middle would help. Of course I suspect all these chambers are not very close in specs
 
#22 ·
The rim is beveled to facilitate the extractor snapping over the rim to engage the cartridge. If flat, the extractor might not do so, keeping the bolt from locking or possibly damaging the extractor.
 
#23 ·
The rim is beveled to facilitate the extractor snapping over the rim to engage the cartridge. If flat, the extractor might not do so, keeping the bolt from locking or possibly damaging the extractor.
I see well then it will have to be replicated. I wonder if a casting of the chamber might be the way to go???????? then just copy it
 
#24 ·
Hello 1biggun,
Perhaps you could simply use a spent 7.62x54R steel case as an adapter by silver brazing a 7.62x25mm sleeve into it. The x54R shell could be bored open from the bolt face end to allow the sleeve to be installed.

The new chambering could be done after the tube sleeve is installed provided that the sleeve is not a hardenable steel.
VD
 
#25 ·
I'd make a casting (sulfur casting is easy :) ) and try that.

If you do use a spent cartridge use a steel case, as the metal in a brass case will flow due to pressures and you could eventually end up with a tighter throat than when you began. Not sure how bad it would be with the pressure from x25 but it still happens, which is why they have case trimmers.

A spent cartridge isn't a bad idea. Could you drill out the base and keep it centered for x25? If it isn't centered, would there be enough slop to let the bullet move down the barrel, or would it get pinched? That would be bad
 
#26 ·
Mild steel cases flow and expand, as well. Just not as quickly as brass. All metals are ductile. Brass or mild steel, expansion (during internal ballistics) and contraction (after internal ballistics) will eventually lead to neck failure.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top