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Starting 7.62x25 Gas Op Build-Advice Appreciated

7K views 51 replies 12 participants last post by  jreifsch80 
#1 ·
OK, I'm getting ready to start the buying parts phase on a x25 gas operated carbine. So far, here is my plan:

Apex AK74 kit for main components. (what I don't need, I can stockpile or sell) $265.00

Royal Tiger PPS43 kit for the magwell and 4 mags. $69.00

RTG for HK sight conversion kit. $45.00

Green Mountain for a .311 barrel blank that I will have another lister finish for me. $33.00

I have read tons of information on the 7.62x25 caliber conversion, but there is a fair amount of conflicting information. I plan to try and follow 2XTM's write up over at Weapons Guild on building a gas op set-up. His is absolutely georgeous, and runs perfect. Only problem is that his is designed around a nice machined aluminum magwell, and PPSH41 mags. If I had access to one of those magwells, it sure would make life easier. Oh well.

Any rate, that is my current thoughts on a parts list. Before I start burning up the plastic, I wanted to run it by the experts, so I don't buy something wrong. Thanks in advance.
 
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#2 ·
doubletapme is a master builder and will answer almost any question you have...

his custom magwells are works of art but you dont have to be as fancy as he is..

im not gonna be for sure, just because my skills are not on par with his.

the 41 mags are the best for centerfeeding but you have to alter the cage and such if you dont have a litchenberg magwell.

im actually using a 43 stick mag on mine just so that it interchanges with my TOK AR builds...

you can use either a pps43 magwell or some spacer plates. just take s a little imagination and extra time.

stay after it...
 
#3 ·
Id go with a .308 blank If it were mine..that is what I have been chambering the barrels I do in.

A .311 may work just fine however I havent done one yet. i do know a .308 bore does work and is the norm. ( depending on what you read) most bullets are .309.
 
#6 ·
An idea I had was to move the trunnion back so slightly modified 43 mags could rock and lock like ak mags I was just thinking about it now and saw your thread now it makes me want to make mine a gas op too. I was thinking if you move the trunnion back say.... An inch (not actual measurment just for example) the I was thinking I could then cut the same amount off the back of the bolt and carrier which would reduce weight (good for gas op) but I'm sure some more swiss cheese cuts would still be needed. But maybe a guy could shorten the trigger gaurd and push the trunnion back to be able to shorten the bolt and carrier as much as possible that would take some good weight off though a little bit of metal might need to be welded on the carrier to extend the carrier guide slots forward but that wouldn't be all that hard. Those are some ideas I've had as I was thinking of making my x25 as short and little as possible with a skorpion pistol grip and basicly making a skorpion on steroids haha

You might want to look into using some sort of gas booster muzzle device as well but like mentioned before double tap was able to get his to run fine so a booster isn't needed if the carrier is lightened enough.

Just some ideas so far
 
#7 ·
You also have to remember that DoubleTapMe said he opened the gas port a little more then needed, he said he wanted to make sure it got more gas then it needed.


You'll bee fine with the PPS43 mag well, AZHonkey made a 9mm and I think a x25 using this setup.
Will it looks as nice as 2XTM's mag well, most likely not. Will it be less work then making a mag well like his, definitely yes.
 
#8 ·
Thanks for the input guys.

1biggun, I'm still looking for a suitable barrel, but I have been told that the original barrel diameter on the PPS43 was .311, so a .311 blank should work. Not sure about the accuracy of that size, but my intent is as a CQB weapon, long distance accuracy is not a huge issue.

ViperDude, what do you mean about a modified SKS? Do you mean an SKS barrel?? First off, is there enough chamber area to cut off and still have enough room to rechamber and still fit into an AK74 trunnion? Second, are the SKS barrels chrome lined? If so, then that is a no-go as it will wreck the chamber reamer.

"J", I plan to go full length, but I "will" be using my own home made flat so I can cut out a proper sized magwell opening. I don't know sh*t about the PPS43, or how the mags lock into place. How does that mag catch system work?

Thanks Coils for the vote of confidence. I know I can do it, I'm just not sure how easy it will be. I want to arm myself with as much info as possible, and have a good plan to follow.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Hello 2ndA,
By SKS I meant the whole thing converted to 7.62x25mm. I'd use a chamber adapter Loctited in place, a clone extractor, magwell adapter, and a lightened recoil spring. The magwell adapter would directly replace the SKS trap door thing. The clone extractor adapts the smaller x25 round to the bolt face and ejector. Some opening up of the forward magwell receiver area may be needed near the chamber.

note: The SKS barrels I've seen were all chromed.

VD
 
#10 ·
hey 2nd I too am gathering parts for x25 build looks like we are on same track I had the pps43 stuff but decided to go 41 route and fab my magblock,
when you stick both mags between trunion it just make since, you can buy mags for $10
ever thing Ive read says you want round going into chamber while still engaged in mag to be reliable. make sense to me, Im still working on my mag block but I have an Idea what I want to do
PPsH-41 36rd Stick Mag - $9.95 : Military Gun Supply, Parts Kits, Surplus GunsPPsH-41 36rd Stick Mag - $9.95 :
 
#11 ·
its all about if you want to use factory mags with no alteration or not...

i luv the 41 mags for dependability & center feed, but the 43 mags will work with no alteration and still interchange in my 43 and my TOK AR.

so that put me back to the 43 mags.

s
 
#12 ·
Well, I am picking up a blowback bolt and EOD magwell from another member, so I will have those 2 parts for a blowback, but I still intend to do a gas op. I guess I'll just do both. Maybe a blowback pistol, and a gas op carbine or SBR.

The big issue now is barrel selection. I know the .311 blank from GM is not optimum for accuracy, but I'm not looking for perfection. I truly can't envision me using these for anything much beyond 50 yards. If I can keep a 6 inch group at 50 yards, that is perfectly acceptable to me. Would the .311 bore acheive this?
 
#14 ·
Even though 43 mags are double column feed they would work just fine as the back of the locking lugs also guide the bullets to the middle so I don't understand why it would matter which mags would be used but I suppose center feed mags would make it a little easier. For a blowback I'd love to see detailed picture of the bolt face on the eod unit I wonder if a guy could modify the bolt in a pps43 kit and weld it to an ak carrier ;)
 
#16 ·
sure you can do 6" groups at 50yds....

its more about getting the feel of the gun.

TOK's arent that accurate in anything, but hitting skeet on a pole at 50yds is doable with just a little practice een out of the 10" barrels and they are all pretty loose.

(my preference on 41over 43 mags is more from the subby conversions and center feed just always works better than stagger on those builds.. if its in the middle, half of the possible feeding issues are eliminated.. :) )
 
#17 ·
Rapid, it "should" be pictured on Erie Ordinance's website. I don't have a pic handy. It uses the PPS43 mags, and has a feed ramp built in to the magwell.

Coild, I am already in discussion with 1biggun, but I still need to provide him with a barrel with which to machine. Just not sure at the moment which is best. a PPS43 barrel, cut and sleeved for the AK74 trunnion, or a .311 GM blank, or ????? There are so many possibilities, that I'm confused as to the "best" approach. (best being easily modified, and relatively inexpensive.)

"J" when I get the bolt, I'll shoot you some pics.

ditigaf, I feel you on the 41 mags over the 43 mags. the center feed I think is a better starting point, but short of getting a nice milled magwell from 2XTM, the 43 magwell seems to be the easier route.
 
#18 ·
2nd, how about I just send one of my gm .311 blanks and have him make a pair of barrels since I need one too, talk to him about your specs but I'm looking at basicly an 8 inch barrel regular barrel parts gas op as a pistol. Then that would leave basicly 12 inches of the blank for you, would that work?
 
#19 ·
That works for me!!! I know we had talked about that the other night on the phone, but I wasn't sure if you were just thinking out loud, or if you were serious. I'll e-mail him, and see what we can work out. Thanks!!! (also I got things worked out for that front stub for you that we were discussing)
 
#21 ·
We need to ship your blank to 1biggun, and he'll turn it into 2 barrels for us.
 
#22 ·
Ok, I have an AK74 non numbers matching kit on the way from APEX, a PPS43 kit on the way from Royal Tiger, a GM .311 barrel blank in the works for a 10 inch AK profile, 7.62x25 chamber, as well as an EOD blowback bolt and magwell. Once it all comes in I can get started.
 
#24 ·
LOL! Yeah and my better half isn't exactly pleased!!!
 
#25 ·
I'll be sending out our blank as soon as the weather gets better (its at my buddies and we've been having snow today)

Did your g3 sight set come in the mail yet?

Are you only planning on doing a 10 incher? If so I might add a tiny bit on to mine since I was originally only thinking 8 an extra inch would help me out a lot and leave one last inch for facing and cleaning up for 1bg. That should work ;)
 
#26 ·
Yeah, I'm just planning on a 10 inch barrel, so you can go more on the other piece. I actually haven't ordered the G3 sight set-up yet. Gonna wait till I get all of these parts in and organized, and make sure that's the direction I want to go. Check is going out tomorrow for M76 kit!!!!! WooHoo!!!
 
#27 ·
Awesome you should have fun building you 76 let me know if you want to borrow my 8mm go nogo set. I got my 20 inch blank from my buddies house so I should have time to get to the post office tomorrow to send it to 1bg.

So did you get your non matching kit yet? Maybe you should get one of those cheap black polimer airsoft krink hg sets for this and make it like a poormans krink ;)
 
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