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VEPR or SAIGA?

15K views 92 replies 34 participants last post by  STGUSN 
#1 ·
That's the question. Both look good. I have a Saiga but am considering a VEPR conversion as well after my other gun "needs" and "wants" are satisfied.

I have seen a few Saiga conversions that look good like the Tromix version. May be in the market in the next few months.

Opinions, Experiences, etc. - any owners here?
 
#2 ·
I have two VEPRs, both have fit and finish that puts any Saiga I've seen to shame. However, one thing that may make conversion more difficult is that many of them are slant cut receivers (although square backs are becoming available).

I was going to turn my 5.45 into an RPK-74 cloe, but the factory wood is so gorgeous I'm likely to leave it alone. The 7.62x54R is waiting for the Ironwood SVD stock I have on order to show up.
 
#4 ·
Mossberg 500 or Rem 870

Which shotgun is the better home defense shotgun. Personally I've owned both but only kept the 870. The mossberg I had seemed cheaply made.

What do you think
 
#6 ·
Either one will get the job done. the 870 has an edge in that adding mag capacity is easy, the Mossbergs are pretty much stuck at what ya bought. Lighter though. I would not feel undergunned with either one.

And yes, Remington quality and cost cutting measures could sure stand some improvements. Buy used, 10 years or older!
 
#7 ·
I like them both, but my preference is the 500 given the choice between the two.

Also take a look at the 590. They are well built. They are a good bit heavier but you'd only notice if you were carrying it for hunting.

The guys that prefer 870s always say that the 500s are rattle traps. The guys that prefer 500s know how to carry them so that they are quiet.

For the most part the 'cheap' impression of the Mossberg is from the loosely fitting charging bars that rattle if you don't keep your hand on them. That loose tolerance is your friend when it comes to reliability in harsh freezing hunting conditions.

I can say that in my entire life of being surrounded by Mossbergs, I have never had to repair one because they simply don't break.

To me , another advantage is the location and size of the slide release. With simple muscle memory, it is nice and easy to push in with heavy gloves while the 870 is a small button that is difficult to get to in a hurry.

You can up the capacity of an 870 by adding a tube extension while with the Mossberg, you are stuck with the capacity that you bought.
 
#9 ·
I have owned both.
My well used Wingmaster is my all time favorite.
I can run it damn near as fast as a semi and it is far more reliable with different loads.
Both are good to go, I like the Rem cross bolt safety for a pistol grip and the Mossy tang for traditional stock.

Shooter
 
#10 ·
I say 870 but that's my preference. A Wingmaster is head over heels better than the express models. The 870 Express was Remington's answer to Mossberg's more economical pricing which is why the quality seems to be lacking a little when compared to the older 870's. The only thing I have seen wrong with them though is the polymer trigger guard and a less "Defined" ejection of spent casings.

I used 500's in the sandbox (we called it the "Key to the City") for rapid door removal, but I never liked it quite as much as the 870. If you have any LEO distributors nearby keep on the lookout. I got a "like new" 870 Police Magnum for $198 and Police Magnums are their top of the line "fighting gun" for lack of a better word.

I have used a Mossberg 500 to lower the clay pigeon population before and enjoyed it I just like a gun with a little more wieght to it and some good after market options for it.
 
#12 ·
I have an 870 3" police magnum, but I think the Mossberg has a more convenient safety.
 
#13 ·
Return of the A5

Anybody up on the old-school long-recoil shotguns ("humpbacks")? These are Auto 5's, Remington Model 11's, Savage 720/745/755 etc, Remington 11-48, etc.

Seems Browning has revived the Auto 5 name and come out with a new shotgun, but it does not seem to be the A5 that I know and love.

Anybody know anything about how the action is supposed to work?

The New A5 -- Come Hell or High Water - Browning Article

 
#22 ·
Re A5 Auto Loader

Anybody up on the old-school long-recoil shotguns ("humpbacks")? These are Auto 5's, Remington Model 11's, Savage 720/745/755 etc, Remington 11-48, etc.

Seems Browning has revived the Auto 5 name and come out with a new shotgun, but it does not seem to be the A5 that I know and love.

Anybody know anything about how the action is supposed to work?

The New A5 -- Come Hell or High Water - Browning Article

Hi ya Sovblocgunfan,
What do you need to know about your shotgun ? Im in the progress of rebuilding a Remington 11, which for all intense purpopses the same gun.,,,Doc
 
#15 ·
I too have owned both the Rem. & Moss. but in a pinch I'de go with the Mossberg strictly because of where the safety is, right where your thumb rests, push it forward and your good to go, no double checking hopping you felt or heard a click like the Rem. safety, that when a potential intruder may be in your home could make the difference. That edge could save you life.
 
#16 ·
Bob it's unanimous.

You have to buy them both. Plus keep your eye out for that slam fire Ithica.

Another plus for the Mossberg safety. My home defense is the 590 kept with the forearm halfway back as a loaded chamber indicator and the safety on. It's very easy to train young people and wives to use under stress.

This young lady is impressive [video=youtube;_6CBKUM9gk8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=_6CBKUM9gk8]THIS GIRL CAN HANDLE A SHOTGUN!! - YouTube[/video]
 
#18 ·
Bob it's unanimous.

You have to buy them both. Plus keep your eye out for that slam fire Ithica.

Another plus for the Mossberg safety. My home defense is the 590 kept with the forearm halfway back as a loaded chamber indicator and the safety on. It's very easy to train young people and wives to use under stress.

This young lady is impressive THIS GIRL CAN HANDLE A SHOTGUN!! - YouTube
I'm in Love!!!!!:whisker::notworthy:notworthy:notworthy
 
#19 ·
I would go with the 500 , I no longer own either model . I do however own the mossy bigger brother ( 835) which shoots the 3.5 mag . The mossy was the only military approved shotgun for a long damn time , because like a timex , they just kept running and running , opppps that is the energizer bunny .
 
#20 ·
The 835 is the goosinist killinest shotgun I've ever used. It's especially fun if my buddies bring there 3'' mags because they can only get a shot when I am finished.
It's range is considerably longer. Just be careful that it doesn't knock you out of the boat.
 
#21 ·
I've owned several 500's over the years, and never had a problem. Smooth action, dead on reliable, and ate anything I threw at them. Got my first one out of a pawn shop back in 1982 in Jacksonville N.C. while in The Corps. Haven't used a newer production version of either gun though.
 
#23 ·
I have a Savage 720 that I rebuilt-it's just like the Remington Model 11.



My intent was to start a discussion about the new A5 they rolled out this past year. It's apparently VERY different from the old A5's, M11's, etc.

Haven't seen one myself, so I'z asking if anyone had, and knew anything about why they are so different.
 
#24 ·
The only difference I can see is the rear of the receiver is lower on the A5, and I don't think the barrels moves like the Auto 5 does
Don't know if it helps or not, but here's a video of the new one
[video=youtube;-MTVtVixWdk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MTVtVixWdk]Browning's A5 Shotgun - YouTube[/video]
 
#25 ·
Bennelli's patent expired in 2006, thus the Browning copy of it's recoil operated system. As I understand it, the bolt head and carrier are spring loaded to each other. Once turned to the locked position the cam slot is now straight and allows the carrier to move forward and compress the spring. When fired, the carrier essentially stays stationary while the rest of the gun recoils rearward, compressing the spring. As it bottoms out, the spring snaps the carrier rearward and imparts enough momentum to it to cycle the action.
 
#28 ·
I don't know about the new ones but I have Belgium a5 20 magnum a American Browning A5 that people say was actually made by Remington, A Belgium Browning 12 gauge a Remington 11 in 20 gauge an a Savage 12.

The 12 gauges were all bought by my great grand father prior to or at the very start of WWII. He bought them all at the dame time there was fear that it was going to be hard to get guns . ( funny how some htings never change) . I was lucky enough to get all three over time from my Grandfather who used them a lot after my great grand father died in 1963. My grand father was a local legend in northern California an was lighting fast on quail an pheasant shooting the A5. he litteraly could drop 3 Quail before most good shoots could get off a shot . he was a poke an shoot style hunter.

As a 12 year old kid i can still recall that browning coming up an the barrel cycling in a out as it ejected three hot shells at me to his right. He told me the American Browning never jammed once on him until the bolt cracked at the ears were it slid in the reciver. He said he likely had shot a 100,000 rounds out of it an who know how many his dad shot. he used the Belgium after that until he could not walk any more.

i was given the broken American Browning In about 1983. it had a cracked bolt an the reciver was cracked were the shell retainer for unloading with out feeding another shell in. Gramps liked to shoot high base loads in it an as far as i know never rearranged the washers in it for heavy loads. the buffer was busted loose an cracked . the buffer is what actualy stopped the gun from working . it had light surface rust. I had the bolt an reciver welded back up I sanded the rust off an never reblued it i just ran it in the white for years. I shot it was my first 12 guage. I shot it in trap league for 4 years an it never once jammed on multipurpose loads. i finished second in the club a few years against a dozen registered shooters an beat the state champ one year in trap league. Guys used to comment that i should park it an get a good gun like there perazies , barrettas kohlers etc. funny none of them guys hardely ever beat me . i eventualy got a over under SKB when the browning broke again after I put a last 2000 round through it. My mother had the Savage an when I moved to WI she slipped it in my truck unknow to my dad. the savage never shot right it always jammed on plastic shells an was not great on paper either . it has been shoot very little I had a smith work on it an it seems to be better its a really tight choke goose gun an now that were stuck with steel shot I cant use it .

last year my grand father died at 95 years old he hunted into his 90,s . I flew out to his funeral an i had one request i wanted the Beglum . after a lot of hurt feeling with my dad i was able to get it .( It was my mothers dads gun)

Two weeks ago I finaly got to shoot the Belgium Browning on some crows. I had wanted that gun since I was 10 it took me 39 years to get to shoot it. it shouldrs an points better thaan any gun I own . Its beat to hell an the bluing on the barrel is long gone from poking brush to flush quail there is a replaced fore end that I got grandpa for xmass in the 1970,s when the original had split an he was shooting it with electrical tape for two years. In side the magaizine there is a hand carved red wood plug to limit the gun to two shells that my sons great great grand father had carved in the 1940,s. the gun is not for sale at any price an i would fight any one who tried to take it law or no law.

I don't plan on making my son wait 40 years to shoot this gun. He will be the 5th generation to hunt with it. I think my Great Grand Father who died three days after I was born an saw me before he passed would have been proud to see his great great grand son shoot it.

IMO the browning A5 is the best auto loader ever designed. yea its heavy by todays standard but they were reliable an strong pointed very well. I doubt then new alloy guns like will go the number of rounds a browning can an still be around in hard use after 100 years.
 
#29 ·
You are right. In all respects. John Browning is known to have said that his autoloading shotgun was, in his opinion, his most successful design. I think he might have been right. The gun will happily beat itself to death with minimal maintenance. I have heard of some from the 20's and 30's that were essentially never cleaned, and worked perfectly. My Savage, built on the Remington version, was made sometime before the war and somebody shot the hell out of it. New springs and a repaired forearm (9" long crack in it) had it back up and running again.

The original A5 design, with all its variants and licenses, was made for very nearly 100 years. It ranks right up there with the best of the best in terms of ruggedness and reliability.

I don't know if this new one will be as legendary. It better be, if they are going to bring the name out of retirement.
 
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