1891 Mauser in .444-1Biggun
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    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    Default 1891 Mauser in .444-1Biggun

    This is came out of the 44??? thread by Gunter. 1Biggun and I have been talking about a build for a while, and this past year the MI DNR changed the regulations so that a straight walled pistol caliber (.35"min) with a case no longer than 1.8" could be used in the shotgun zone. I used my 357AR rifle last year and was happy with how it performed, but I'm a big bore guy at heart. So after some back and forth I made a chamber reamer that would cut a chamber from 1.8" (for me) -2.25"(for 1Biggun). I had already picked up a sporterized 1891 mauser that needed rebarreled for $120 a while back. It seemed like a perfect match. Depending on the pressure you want to run the cartridge at, quickload shows that it should be about 2250fps out of an 18" barrel if run at 44k-psi or as high as 2465fps if run at 60k-psi. I'll be limiting this build to 44k-psi and most likely around 40k-psi which is actually better than what my .50 Hawkins will drive them with a sabot. Here's some pics so far of the donor gun, action wrench to remove the old 6.5 carcano barrel (yes some idiot fitted a Carcano barrel to this rifle even though the barrel was pitted inside and out), and making the reamer.
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    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    Here's some of the Quickload guestimates. The case length and water capacities on QL were changed to match the formed cases. Once there is a gun to shoot them in I can spend the summer working up different loads like I did with the 357AR a couple years back. For forming brass I went with R-P 30-06 brass that were run though 44 Auto Mag Pistol case forming dies including neck reaming, annealed and run though an expander die.
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    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    I already had 44mag and 444marlin dies, so after running the cases through the expander die they were just resized in a 444 marlin die. R-L 444 marlin, 444-1Biggun, 44 mag.
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    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    I have a GM .429" 1:20" barrel waiting to be profiled, threaded and chambered. I'm debating making it an octagon or just following a basic stepped barrel similar to what the stock is inletted for. I'm leaning towards the octagon. The 1891 mauser has almost no gas handling features compared to other models. Later production ones added the wings on the bolt sleeve to block gas running straight down the left bolt rail into your face. I tracked down a original 1891 late version cocking piece with the wings. Otherwise you can change out the firing pin, cocking piece and bolt sleeve to a 93-96 type. Here pics of what those little wings do. In the bottom pic you can see how the shape of the bolt face directs gas down the left bolt rail which is wide open except for the ejector right to your face. In the two pictures above it you can see how the latter style bolt sleeve blocks off the bolt rails. I also plan on adding a vent to the receiver and bolt similar to a 1893. Can't hurt.
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    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    The shorter 444-1bg rounds wouldn't feed through the original magazine so a filler block was needed. The mag spring is actually two flat springs that cantilever off of each other and the floorplate. So a new mag spring and follower will have to be made, but the magwell block is done. I left it with a bit more space forward of the XTP bullets for the pointed Flextip bullets that are now available. That's where it's at right now. Once I finish up a few barrels I can get back to work on it
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    No Hope For Me 1biggun's Avatar
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    I cant wait for this to be alive .

    It will be interesting to see how close the quick load is to what the round actually does .

    Nice looking stock on that gun

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    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    It's a Fajen stock. I wish the comb wasn't quite so high. You have to press your cheek down on it hard in order to get a good sight picture. The replacement barrel will be thicker at the muzzle and will have a higher front sight from centerline, so perhaps it won't be an issue. I want to try to shoot it with the iron sites, but want to keep the option open for a scope. Otherwise the comb would get cut down enough for a comfortable cheek weld.

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    3/6 Infantry mtdew's Avatar
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    How does this round compare diamention wise to the 44 marlin? 1/4- 3/8" shorter? The ballistics you mentioned are impressive. This is the building stuff we like to see here! Keep it coming.
    "NA BEAN DON CHAT GUN LAMHAINN"
    Clan MacPherson
    "CREAG DHUBH"!

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    3/6 Infantry mtdew's Avatar
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    I've got alot of kin in Mississippi that would love this round. A few years ago MS. decided that a centerfire single shot rifle that fires a cartridge larger than .35 cal can be used in their primative hunt (AKA muzzle loader hunt to the rest of us). My nephew runs a NEF "topper" in .35 whelen. Lucky basterds!
    "NA BEAN DON CHAT GUN LAMHAINN"
    Clan MacPherson
    "CREAG DHUBH"!

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    gunco irregular moleman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtdew View Post
    How does this round compare diamention wise to the 44 marlin? 1/4- 3/8" shorter? The ballistics you mentioned are impressive. This is the building stuff we like to see here! Keep it coming.
    I did the QL stuff based off of a 1.8" case length v/s a 444 Marlin at 2.225". 1Biggun wants to go a little longer since he isn't in a DNR restricted area. Once he gets his case length and volume figured out we can figure out the performance for his which should be better. The 444 marlin is limited to 51k-psi. If you run the 444 Marlin with a 18" barrel through QL along with 48.3gr of IMR4198 and a 240gr XTP you get just under 2300fps at 42K-psi which is the fastest loading in my Hornady book (24" barrel gets 2400 fps). Using different powders and the same 240gr XTP QL shows 2250 FPS at 44k-psi, 2360 FPS at 52K-PSI and 2450 FPS at 60K-psi. So it compares well to 444 marlin and can beat it if loaded in a strong action. Mine isn't so I'll be happy with middle of the road 444 marlin performance. I even did the calculations for a ar15 at 39k-psi and got around 2150 fps with an 18" barrel. I'd load it down in an ar15 though as I still don't trust how thin the barrel is at the minor diameter cut at the stub shoulder.

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