While surffing craigs list recently I found an add for a horazontal mill. After looking at the pictures it was an old line shaft mill that had been converted to electric drive. The seller said it powered up and worked so I stopped by last nite and took a look at it while out on a rare date with Mrs Moleman. Who says I don't know how to show a lady a good time. It was a turn of the century E.E. Garvin & Co. No.3 horizontal mill with a 8"x36" table, power feed, a vise, and about 20 cutters. It seemed to work although it is very dirty and grimey. The best thing was the price....$100:woot: And the Mrs said I should get it so it doesn't get sold for scrap.
SOOOO, today I got a trailer and some tools and gave a shot a moving it. I used a 2 ton engine hoist to remove the electric motor and transmission mounted on top of the mill first, Then lifted the mill and sat it on the hoist legs while moving it to the trailer. At the trailer we pushed it in as far as it would go and rolled it on pipes (which ViperDude reminded me to take and I would of been S.O.L. without) until it was in position. I had it sitting on a sheet of plywood that was screwed to the trailer deck, and had boards screwed around the base of the mill to keep it from sliding. Then I put eight or nine ratchet straps all around the mill to stablize it. I have no idea what the mill weighs, but the minivan didn't like towing it and I was "that idiot" driving 45-50mph down the expressway today. Back home removed it the opposite of putting it in. I'll need to go through it, clean it up and put it back together and eventually paint it, but for $100 with tooling I figured I couldn't go wrong.
09-10-2011, 10:21 PM
Nice Find! $100?!?!
Make sure to give Mrs. Mole a hug and kiss from me. What a Lady....
09-10-2011, 10:40 PM
Thanks Bellson, already taken care of. She thought it was a piece of history that should be saved. I did find out that the E.E. Garvin & Co. reformed in 1889-90 and dropped the E.E. from the name. So it looks like it is at least 121 years old.....and still works.
09-11-2011, 01:07 AM
What a cute horizontal mill !!! It certainly does look victorian 19th Century. Glad your trip was safe and sound. Moving machinery can be hazardous.
Do check to see what taper is used on the mill. Sometimes the arbor is stuck super tight and requires real focus to get free like the chuck on your Sheldon lathe.
Great score there !!!! AK kits cost lots more than your mill these days !!!
09-11-2011, 08:51 AM
I haven't had a chance to play with it much yet. There was another arbor for it in the box of cutters. It has a smaller 2"-2.5" cutter on it so perhaps it is for smaller cutters than the large one thats on it now. It looks like it hasn't had any or limited mantenance in my lifetime, so I plan on doing that before I use it. Plus I'll have to figure out what the lube needs are. While I have the trailer I'm going to try and move the sheldon lathe out to the polebarn today.
09-11-2011, 01:17 PM
WOW, great find for $100 !!!
09-11-2011, 01:23 PM
Post your find over on the Practical Machinist forums, they have all sorts of guys into antique iron and someone may actually have the manual for your machine in a PDF. Almost sure someone will have an old catalog scan at least.
Did the electric motor go through an old Ford Model A manual trans? That was apparently the "hot setup" back in the day for converting lineshaft equipment.
09-11-2011, 04:32 PM
Kernelkrink, The gear drive has a name plate that says "Turner UNI-Drive Ser# 17504 Model #B13 Turner Machine Co. Kanas City Mo." It it certainly old and beefy also. The motor was made by Howell Electric motor company Plainfield NJ 3/4hp, 110v, 11 amp, 1725 RPM. I didn't run it much as the gears in it sounded dry. Here's some pics of where I put it next to the other machines.
09-11-2011, 04:44 PM
Hmmnn, never seen one of those gear drives before, they musta went "first class" instead of buying and adapting a $5 junkyard trans!
09-11-2011, 06:09 PM
Well the gear drive was bone dry. Or at least I put a quart of 80-90 in it and if I tilt it about 30 degrees I still can't see any oil in the fill port. That did quiet down the gear noise quite a bit. I'll see what I can find out about the drive unit. It was adapted from some thing else and cobbled together. I'll let it set a while to see where/if the oil is leaking from before I put any more in.
09-11-2011, 08:00 PM
That Turner gear box is likely from a moose-sized Turner lathe from after 1932. The company is still around in Kansas City as the Blue Chip Machine Co. They make among other things the "Turner U-drive" continuing the Turner business for 78 years making non-automotive "speed changers".
So that gear box is the real deal not from a car tranny !!! Being real American it uses inch spec fittings and seals.
Your polebarn-shop is looking great moleman !!!!
09-11-2011, 08:36 PM
Thanks Viper Dude, the shop is slowly taking shape. I ran the motor and gear box where it sat a little bit once I put the quart of oil in it. It seems that it is a four speed gear box. The two levers have three positions each. One of the two levers has to be in the middle position no matter what. If you put both levers in the middle it locks up the gear box, same as if you don't have one lever set in the middle position. There is no ground on the motor as it sits, but it needs a longer cord with some sort of on/off switch so I'll take care of it then.
09-29-2011, 11:32 AM
The Dark Knight
Damn, nice find and nice shop.
09-29-2011, 12:08 PM
Thanks Dark Knight, I've made a little progress on it over the past weeks. I managed to take the arbor out of the spindle and then removed the spindle and bearings. The only real damage I've found so far is a cracked iron thrust washer that goes between the back side of the front bronze bearing and the spacers (water pipe sections) for the sprocket. From the ammount of black crud in the crack I think it was in use for some time like that. The bearing felts were as hard as fiber board so they will need to be replaced also. It will be a fun winters project to get it torn down, checked and put back into service. I'd rather do that than use it as is and have it tear its self apart after having made it 122+ years. It is a very simple design and should be an easy rebuild. One odd thing that Viper Dude pointed out before I even noticed it was the table had been turned around at some point. My guess is this was done to put the handle on the right side as it only has one. No leaks from the gear box yet, so perhaps it has to be running for the oil to leak out. It didn't look like it leaked in the past though so perhaps it had been drained for some reason.
09-29-2011, 12:47 PM
Why is your pole barn so damn clean. It doesn't look like it gets used at all. :)
09-29-2011, 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by 00redZX-6R
Why is your pole barn so damn clean. It doesn't look like it gets used at all. :)
It's only about 4 months old :woot: Give it some time and I'll cram that barn so full of machines that I'll feel like I'm back in the cramped garage :lol: Right now I'm resisting the urge to get an antique manual iron worker thats for sale locally.
09-29-2011, 03:08 PM
Why resist if the price is right.
10-07-2011, 09:30 PM
The Dark Knight
Whats the vise like? From the pics it looks Great.
The vise does look like a Lewis Shaper vise as Viper Dude stated. It seems like it is a very well made vise. I haven't made any progress on the mill in the last couple weeks, but hopefully that'll turn around soon.
10-29-2013, 08:37 PM
Now that's the kind of find I want!! Congrats!!!
10-29-2013, 08:39 PM
And very nice looking shop!!!
10-29-2013, 09:10 PM
Thanks d65, There's still room for more toys!
04-26-2015, 08:26 PM
Recently I picked up a mid 70's basket case Clausing 1300 13x36 lathe with taper attachment for $400. It needs quite a bit of work to get going but I'm in no hurry with two other lathes in the shop. Here's a pic. So far I've go the carriage off and disassembled. I've found a few parts that Need replaced like two gears in the quick change gear box, leadscrew, cross slide screw and nuts. The compound was missing and a mismatch broken one came with the lathe. At some point water had got down inside of the apron a wrecked much of it also. I was able to find an almost complete carriage locally for $150 so besides a missing handle, and the cross slide screw and nut the carriage is almost taken care of. There were two gears in the quick change gear box that need repaired or replaced as they have a damaged spot on them. I may just braze up the bad area and recut it like I did on my Sheldon lathe. I have found the correct acme rod to make a new cross slide screw, so I'd just need a tap to make the nuts. It uses a split nut design to take up any backlash so it should be a simple fix. The leadscrew can also be replaced with generic acme rod that has a keyway in it. The headstock gears look great and the rest of the quick change gear box gears look great also, but I am replacing all the bushings and bearings in the QCGB as they weren't oiled regularly.
First pic is the lathe as soon as it was set in the barn. Second is the headstock gears which all look excellent. Third is what I found inside of the apron that caused the power feed to seize up as the prior owner mentioned. Forth is what the replacement apron looks like. Just a tiny bit of finish wear on a couple of teeth. Fifth is the only two bad gears in the QCGB. The small one can likely have the damaged area turned off and the larger one can be brazed and the teeth recut.
04-26-2015, 08:56 PM
It's not all sunshine, rainbows and unicorns. The Sheldon lathe came with a 6" Cushman 4-jaw chuck that need a new backplate. I found a backplate that would work for $20 and fitted it to the chuck. My oldest daughter and I made a set of keys to make dialing it in easier. I figure sweet! for $20 and a little work I have another chuck for the lathe. I finally got a chance to use it Monday turning down a 1.25" blank to around .980" and I noticed the finish wasn't as shiny near the chuck. I found nothing wrong and attempted to thread the barrel only to have the positive rake bit grab the barrel stub and pull it towards it making a spot around .020" under the major dia. Inspecting the chuck reviled that it is junk. The keyways the jaws ride on are cracked on the outer ends of the chuck which can allow the work piece to move around. One of the keyways which wasn't glaringly obviously cracked before is now. It appears that at some point the chuck was used a lot with the jaws about 1/3rd out of the chuck body instead of flipping them around. That put too much stress on the outer ends of the jaw keys and cracked them. It doesn't show up well in the pic, but the flat spot is right in the middle of the threads. Replaced the chuck and all went back to normal with the lathe.
04-26-2015, 11:22 PM
Forgot to update the Garvin horizontal mill. When tearing it down I found the main nut on the x axis to be completely stripped out. The backlash nut looked new in comparison and was what was actually moving the table. A quick check showed it had 6TPI square threads and was 7/8" in dia. I quickly made up a threaded bushing only to find it wouldn't screw on. Then I noticed it was a two start thread and was really a 3tpi ..... As it stood the largest thread my Sheldon lathe could cut was 4tpi. It sat for several years as other projects came up and health issues sprang up. Recently I decided to tackle it and got a 22t gear to replace the 44t input side gear of the quick change gear box. That would cut the listed threads on the chart in half and allow me to thread the 7/8"-3 two start square threads when the gearbox was set to cut 6tpi. With the compound set parallel to the bed the first thread was cut, then the compound was advanced the correct amount to zero out to cut the second start. The table is back on and works much better. I want to remake the motor mount so I haven't installed the spindle or motor yet.
04-26-2015, 11:47 PM
That looks like a good find for $100. Is your shop still that empty or did you fill it up? :)
04-27-2015, 12:56 AM
It filled up some. The first pic of the Clausing is in my barn. The back panel of the lathe is leaning up against the side of our boat. There's a camper I there as well. Still room for a Bridgeport! I've been looking and haven't found the right deal locally yet.
04-27-2015, 01:04 AM
that garage needs some color! :lildevil:
04-27-2015, 01:24 AM
Needs insulation and interior walls first...Oh and a heater to keep the coolant from freezing in the winter.
04-27-2015, 02:03 AM
i meant machine wise!
06-02-2015, 06:09 PM
The 1301 Clausing came with two bad phase converters that looked like all they needed were a new start capacitor and a new resistor. So, $22 later I had a new USA made start capacitor and a two pack of resistors on the way. Hope to get one of the phase converters rebuilt this week and test out the motor.
06-02-2015, 06:47 PM
YOU need to give me a holler before you hit the internet. I have caps and resistors at my disposal for a fellow flatlander.
I'm a controls electrician, I work on giant machines and robots. I have all that.
Matter of fact, I'm in the process of gathering materials to run my Bridgeport with a laptop using Twincat as the NC. Flying saw and all that!
I'll get in touch with your family if I have to, set up an intervention.
06-02-2015, 06:50 PM
Matter of fact, how about a single phase in, three phase out freak drive?
06-02-2015, 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by ashhoe
Matter of fact, how about a single phase in, three phase out freak drive?
I'm one step above Homer Simpson (I hope) as far a electricity goes and this is going to be my first foray into anything 3-phase. The guy I got the lathe from was running his whole shop off of the unit in the pic and burned up 2-3 of them before going to a RPC. It looks like it's only an extra start cap and a couple resistors along with a switch and an indicator light. What the freak drive you're talking about? I plan on getting a Bridgeport soon which will most likely be 3-phase also.
06-02-2015, 08:04 PM
It's usually a more basic motor controller. It changes the frequency to control motor speed like voltage change in a DC motor. Open end control versus closed end in a servo system.
Think a rotary potentiometer with O to 20 volts to an input card. O volts tells the freak to run the motor at nothing and 20 volts makes it run at full speed. The frequency change can be hard on old insulation though. I have motors though.......
06-02-2015, 09:24 PM
I should be fine with the phase converter shouldn't I since the lathe has variable speed already? I actually have two phase converters like the one in the pic, so if the start cap and resistor fix the issue I just need another start cap to fix the other converter (for when the Bridgeport comes).
06-03-2015, 01:28 PM
I ain't no electrickery expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once! What Ashhoe is talking about sounds like a VFD, Variable Frequency Drive. An electronic box, ya supply 240 volt single phase in and it provides 240 volt three phase out the other side. In between you got a lot of programmable options, main one being variable speed and reversing. Also remote control/sensing options you can add. Very handy for those machines that require pulley/gear changes to change speed versus cranking a handle or moving a lever. Essentially, the HZ rating is what determines speed, you dial down normal 60 HZ line voltage to 30 HZ and your motor runs at half speed but full HP rating. Kinda complicated though, especially programming stuff beyond speed and reverse.
That box ya got pictured looks like a static phase converter, basically it just starts the three phase motor in the proper direction and then runs it on single phase at a reduced HP. From what I understand if you add a slightly larger 3 phase "pony motor" than what you are powering the static phase converter then becomes a rotary phase converter providing true 3 phase power just like if the electric company had run it into your shop. Just wire the pony motor in like it is the machine you would be powering, then tap the three phase power off the three motor leads on the pony motor. Used three phase motors are dirt cheap to free around here. I have a TECO VFD to play with right now but eventually I think I will build a RPC using this method.
06-03-2015, 02:42 PM
With the RPC aren't you drawing a lot more amps since you're running the RPC and whatever equipment you're going to use?
The motor on the 1301 Clausing is a 5HP for a 13"x36" lathe. I've run my 13"x36" Sheldon off of a 1hp motor since I got it. About the only time I notice that it would benefit from more HP is at the top belt speed in the winter or with too heavy of a cut, again only on the top speed which I rarely use. At 2/3rd rated HP on the Clausing that's still 3-1/3HP. It uses a Reeves drive (like a snowmobile) for the variable speed so that's covered. I am also wanting to swap my mill/drill for a Bridgeport j-head so I am open to ideas that could be a fixall for both. I do have another static converter with a bad cap for it too. I removed the old cap and resistor on the one in the pic and soldered in new ones. Will have to wait until I can get a cord before testing it out though.
06-04-2015, 03:05 AM
The static converters don't provide 2/3 rated HP, more like 40%. The motors tend to overheat quick when loaded beyond half or used more than intermittently. Yes, an RPC uses more power than a static, but you get more of the rated HP out of your motors. They also can power all the motors in the shop, where the static does one at a time. If not rated high enough, a stopgap solution is to turn on a smaller machine to act as another pony motor and increase the output. IIRC, the RPCs use about 30% more power than the load motor alone.
The VFD is the most efficient, but requires a direct connection to a single motor. All the motor control is done with the VFD, such as on off and reverse forward. Makes use inconvenient if you are used to just flipping the drum switch to turn it on and off. You can't have any switch between the VFD and motor as the surges from switching can fry them. The remote control features of the VFD do come in handy here as you can wire the low voltage controls to more convenient locations instead of using the keypad. They can also cause interference issues by creating noise on the input lines.