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Happy Camper
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK forget the Russian patent, and how it works. I had a forehead-slapping brainstorm, thanks to a pic Grendeljaeger showed me of a Galil AR magazine adapter, and that Suomi webpage that talks about coffin magazines.

The idea is not with the magazines, but with a FEED TOWER!

Using sheet metal, construct a side-by-side feed tower in which two magazines can lock side-by-side. No rivets are needed, it just needs to fit over the top of the magazines somewhat like a LULA loader. The top of this feed tower narrows into a normal magazine top, which can be a cut-down magazine top... no matter, it has to lock onto the receiver and feed in the normal way. On the C-MAG, this is a carbon fiber construction that is extra slippery vs. the metal bullets. Dry lube can compensate for a sheet metal construct.

Take 2 normal mags. Cut off the feed lips so the magazines can no longer be loaded. These two mags connect to the bottom of the dual-stack feed well. They can be permanently attached, and could use the existing "lugs" to connect. The trick is the feed lips must be removed. They can be connected at the bottom in any way - you could use a piece of nylon strap to connect them in the middle, or wrap a piece of sheet metal around the bottom and the sides like a shipping crate would be bound. Just keep them stationary.

NOW here's the fun part - think C-MAG - you'll need some dummy rounds that have bevels on both ends, just like with the C-MAG. In fact, C-MAG dummy rounds would work for an AK-74. You can use aluminum or brass rod that has a cone shape on both ends, doesn't matter. You need enough of them so that the space between the custom feed well down to both magazines are filled. As with the C-MAG, each side's dummy rounds need to be linked in such a way that they don't spill over into the other side. The C-MAG does this by linking the ones closest to the magazine well in a single line, and the ones closest to the followers are double-stacked. They are connected by small wire links.

Load the custom feed well like normal. A Lula would make this easy. The dummy rounds will take up the first 5 or 6 rounds at the bottom of the magazines, and the real bullets will sit within the "feed tower" and feed into the gun like normal. The feed tower connects to the gun like a normal magazine.

Viola! You have a quad-stack magazine. You can do this with any caliber.

Think about this - 2 40 round 7.62x39 RPK mags can make you an 80-ROUNDER mag! 2 45-rounder 5.45x39 mags will make a 90-ROUND quad stack! Think about this - 2 50-rounder Galil mags will make you a 100-ROUND quad stack for your Saiga conversion! Take 2 AMD-65 20-rounders, you have a BIPOD-FRIENDLY 40-ROUNDER!!!!

The only problem is, you need to dedicate the two magazines to this. Once you cut those feed lips, there's no going back. This would therefore be suitable only for cheap mags, like E. German bakelites or Bulgarian synthetics. I wouldn't do it with waffle mags of any type.

The beauty of this is that the cheap cheap US-made magazines, that don't feed worth a crap, could be used! This could be done for any magazine... think about it - 40-rounder FAL, G3, or CETME mags! The possibilities here are outstanding.

OK someone find a problem with this design. Let's get the bugs worked out of this before we get too excited. There has to be a "gotcha" I've overlooked.
 

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hcpookie said:
OK someone find a problem with this design. Let's get the bugs worked out of this before we get too excited. There has to be a "gotcha" I've overlooked.
Thanks a lot for putting this thought into my head. I'll probibly smack myself on the digits a couple times tomorrow with my hammer, having this thought there.

Am definatly interested in hearing on how this might work out.

Sounds too easy....LOL
 

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interesting idea. maybe it will become the pookie mag conversion :) .
 

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Leave it to Pookie, but I'm still having trouble really picturing it too. Somehow I missed this post last night, but I'm rather excited about its prospects. Quadstacks for the RPK74, yeeaahhhhhh. Thats what I'm talking about.
 

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Hmmm. sounds possible but I got lost somewhere in the part about how the rounds would feed...Sounds cool,let try and figure this out....It would be really neat to have a modified quad mag
 

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Ahh,I think I see wht you are smelling.Couldn't you use just empty of powder rounds since they wouldn't leave the mag after the followers bottom out below the "funnel".Seems like you might have to groove the inside wall of the two mags and link the followers with say an upper and lower short bit of 1/4 tubing so it would be rigid yet still be able to follow the curvature of the mag to prevent the "slicker" mag from feeding all of its rounds first then blocking the other with the dummies.That would mean the groove would have to exit the bottom of the mag but if the base plates were welded together with a plate and a band of the proper size was used midway up even the plastic ones shouldn't swell.Probably would require three hands and a full face shield to assemble it but then you would only have to worry about finding more ammo_Or do you think they will feed alright without being linked.
Spiffy idea Mr. Pookie and way easier than total fabrication of a quad stack.
 

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Here's some pictures I whipped up real fast. This is what I envisioned after reading Pookie's post. This would be the setup after the feedlips had been removed and the tower added. But, I'm not exactly sure how the dummy rounds and how it would properly feed.

Click the thumbnails to get a closer view.
 

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Happy Camper
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
yosuthnmasa said:
Here's some pictures I whipped up real fast. This is what I envisioned after reading Pookie's post. This would be the setup after the feedlips had been removed and the tower added. But, I'm not exactly sure how the dummy rounds and how it would properly feed.

Click the thumbnails to get a closer view.
Looks about right, *except* you'll want to have a taper where the top of the two mags converge into the one.

Let me sit down with Visio and make a few jpegs. Working on a project for work so may not get to it until tomorrow. Then again I may go to the club tomorrow night with my g/f so it may be this weekend... well you know how it is. Guns, or girls... hrm tough choice. (hey at least she's seen the guns and doesn't mind them like the last one!) :D
 

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How about those colorful snap caps for dummie rounds? Thats what they use on those Suomi-mac 10 conversions.
 

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Happy Camper
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
OK here you go... a few more tech details about the P-MAG. :biggrin:

Here's what the C-MAG looks like inside. Note the follower rounds - the "dummy" rounds that betaco calls spacer rounds - which are grey and red in the pics:

http://www.arizonagunrunners.net/Products/betacocmag/betacocmag.html





Also note that the top few follower rounds are cone shaped on both ends, so the bolt will not "hold open" on the last round, damage the magazine, etc. This of course keeps the bolt hold open feature on the AR-15 from working, but will have no effect for an AK or any other design without a BHO.

Note how on both sides the follower rounds are double-stacked, then due to the follower, are fed into the main feed tower single-stacked. That's basically what the follower rounds will do in the P-MAG, but there is less distance for them to travel.

Here's what the P-MAG looks like... hopefully it isn't too large. The Divider is optional - not sure it is needed and may impede feeding. Just a thought.

 

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Happy Camper
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Cephus said:
Do you think the old sks mags will work.
Very good I printed out this page so I can give it a try.
I'm working on the SKS-D now with the bullpup.
I want a pull and not a push trigger.
I don't see why they wouldn't work... assuming of course there's no inherent design flaw that will keep this thing grounded. There almost has to be something wrong here... probably need to do some prototyping work to be sure.

That taper has me worried - with the divider there could be a bottleneck where the rounds that feed from the outside won't fee properly. It may need a curve instead of a bend, or a slight taper, making the whole assembly longer. Just not sure.

That would be a good combo - SKS bullpup with quad-stack.
 

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Oh,hell.Now I have to find the ~1/2 7.62 to chain pitch conversion table in Mc Master-Carr to order some links.
 

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What do ya think about using 30 cal metal links for the dummy rounds?
 

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A floor plate could be made that would join both mag bottoms.
Getting the feed tower hight and angle correct is the key to making it work correctly. The idea is totaly posible. The feed tower will need dimples run verticaly like an AR mag to reduce friction on the inside.
 

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Happy Camper
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
RebFootCav said:
What do ya think about using 30 cal metal links for the dummy rounds?
Would not work - links would be too thick and not feed the dummy rounds properly. That's the goal, however, to have a 5-link long belt link of dummy rounds.
 
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