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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just a matter of time before these two worthless organizations teamed up.


ACLU, CAIR target Christian group
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Friday, December 24, 2004
2004 WorldNetDaily.com

The ACLU and an Islamic civil-rights group are calling for investigation of the head of a private-school association who wrote a letter to a Muslim school applying for membership, asking why it would want to join a group that doesn't fit its beliefs.

In a two-page letter, Edd Burleson, director of the Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools, or TAPPS, asked the Houston school, Dar-Ul-Arqam, 10 questions, including its attitude toward "the spread of Islam in America" and the goals of the school "in this regard."


The Council on American-Islamic Relations has demanded an apology and reprimands, calling the letter an "alarmingly intolerant and hostile attitude toward Islam and Muslims," the Houston Chronicle reports.

"The TAPPS letter, a symbol of religious intolerance, has no place in a nation that was originally built by those seeking asylum from such intolerance," said Iesa Galloway, executive director of CAIR's Houston office, in correspondence to the TAPPS board.

Dar-Ul-Arqam, with more than 300 students at three locations, already belongs to a local interscholastic association with grade-school and middle-school programs, but TAPPS would offer scholastic competition for the school's 19 high schoolers.

The school is under supervision of the Islamic Education Institute of Texas.

TAPPS membership includes 238 schools across the state, including many Catholic and Protestant institutions in the Houston area.

The ACLU of Texas is calling for an investigation, according to Alamdar Hamdani, a Houston member of the ACLU board.


Burleson's letter quotes a verse from the Quran calling on Muslims to be violent toward non-Muslims. He notes most TAPPS-member schools are Christian, then asks, "Why do you wish to join an organization whose membership is basically in total disagreement with your religious beliefs?"

He suggested some TAPPS members may not be tolerant of Muslims: "Why do you think that the current member schools of TAPPS will not be biased against your school, based on the fundamental difference in your religion and Christianity, since about 90 percent of TAPPS schools embrace Christianity?"

CAIR's Galloway said Burleson sent a similar letter to an Islamic school in the Dallas area.

Khaled Katbi, a representative of the Houston Muslim school, said he went before the TAPPS board Nov. 4 to seek membership.

Katbi was asked if the school taught from the Quran, and he said it did.

"Their questions were reasonable," he told the Chronicle. "I did not sense hostility."

One week later, however, Katbi received the letter from Burleson, which said the school needed to answer certain questions before it could be admitted.

Katbi said he was "astonished."

Burleson asked: "Do you teach your students to 'Make war on them (Christians and Jews) until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme' (Koran 8:37)?"

Katbi said he did not reply to the questions.

The Chronicle said the TAPPS bylaws do not indicate the assocation is restricted to Christian schools.

The ACLU's Hamdani said TAPPS would not be able to conduct itself that way if it accepted federal funding. The nonprofit association's website, however indicates its revenue comes from member dues and sporting-event fees..

"It's the venom in that letter that's so disturbing," Hamdani told the Houston paper. While the letter is structured as a series of questions, he said, "they're really more assumptions than questions."

Martin B. Cominsky, regional director of the Anti-Defamation League, said the letter "assumes some offensive stereotypes about what Islam is all about."

Ibrahim Hooper, CAIR's national spokesman in Washington, D.C., said, to his knowledge, other Islamic schools have not encountered difficulties with private-school associations.

The letter reflects "the rise in anti-Muslim sentiment" since the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, he claimed.
 

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Since it's a private organization that sent the letter, I don't see how this is any of the ACLU's business: The only constitutional violation would be if the government were to prevent TAPPS from sending that ridiculous letter.

The content of the letter I do think is rather disgusting - reminiscent of the sort of anti-catholicism that was about when JFK was running for President and some folks thought that it was a Papist conspiracy since JFK would be beholden to the Pope (I kid you not - some of the older farts on these forums may remember this). But I should think it's the duty of the ACLU to protect the right of private organizations to be disgusting.

And, yes, I'm an ACLU member, but they do seem to be getting increasingly defocussed from legitimate constitutional issues.

If this culminates in the ACLU filing suit against TAPPS demanding that the letter be rescinded, and if the ACLU wins that suit, the ACLU shall have then successfully attacked, not defended, the First Amendment. Hopefully that won't happen.

Only if TAPPS were a governmental agency would the ACLU be acting appropriately. The Bill of Rights does restrict what governmental agencies can do.
 

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Gunco Irregular
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I don't see why, in the interest of furthering cooperation between the faiths, he didn't just answer the questions instead of being offended. When a question is asked out of ignorance of the subject it seems to me best to educate the person unless you are afraid of telling the truth. There is a huge difference in what is taught in Muslim schools with one end being hard core believers against the world, and then the other end of the spectrum being more in line with other mainstream religions. If I was with a religious educational association like TAPPS I'd also be careful who I associated with. I would probably ask the same type questions of say a Branch Davidian School.
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
You can not change people's minds through litigation or legislation. Sure, there is some significant and necessary gain from passing the Civil Rights Act in 1964.

After that, true equality comes from behavior. The confrontational quality of current civil rights efforts is not working.
 

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I very strongly disagree with you, Custer. Not that it justifies some of the stupider laws that have come about, but there has been a sea change in the way folks deal with race in the USA, and I really don't think it would have happened had it not been for laws that forced changes in behavior.
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The laws were necessary to cure an evil but they can never solve the social equality problem. Only people can do that and much of what is going on today in the name of civil rights is inconsistent with what is need and that is goodwill.

When the civil rights issue was being pressed in the early 60's one of the words used frequently was the need for racial "tolerance".

I will never forget my Dad giving us a lecture at dinner one night about how he hated that concept of racial tolerance. In short, he said you "tolerate" an odor or something offensive and that is not how you treat human beings.

So, while he was fully in favor of getting the legislation on the books he knew that when all was said and done the real gains would come not from laws but how we viewed each other.

Now I think a lot of good will has been dissapated by ill advised civil rights efforst and we have tolerance.

We blew it, at least for now.
 

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Well, I think that the more despicable manifestations of racism would have persisted longer were Blacks still segregated away from Whites in schools, restaurants, etc., etc.

But, yep, we've got a long way to go before the problem of race is whipped in the USA.

Rather tangential aside... One of the things I was taken by the two times I was in Cuba is how thoroughly racially integrated Cuban society is - yet at the same time racism persists in the government, with few Blacks accorded positions of power. Yet on the streets it's a very polyglot culture and you don't see folks sorting themselves out by the color of their skin as you do here in the US.
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Don't misunderstand me. There was no way you keep keep treating people like that.

You have to move past group rights at some point and stress individual rights. Further legislation and agressive litigation on behalf of groups will prevent further progress.
 

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Custer said:
Don't misunderstand me. There was no way you keep keep treating people like that.

You have to move past group rights at some point and stress individual rights. Further legislation and agressive litigation on behalf of groups will prevent further progress.
And please don't misunderstand me - I don't think legislation is a panacea.

Actually, I think you and I do a pretty good job of understanding one another and not setting the other up as a straw man.

And I think that some essentially good laws, such as affirmative action (yes - affirmative action!), need to be re-examined and reconstructed. I think the biggest flaw in affirmative action (among many) is that it has no sunset provisions for when it is no longer needed [and if there will never be a time that it is no longer needed, then we should ditch it entirely now, since that means that it's ineffective].
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Affirmative action is not a law. It is a Presidential executive order put into effect in current form by LBJ and continued by every President since 1964 or thereabouts.

It conflicts with the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the clear legislative history when the law was being debated.
 

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Custer said:
Affirmative action is not a law. It is a Presidential executive order put into effect in current form by LBJ and continued by every President since 1964 or thereabouts....
Didn't know that. That would help explain its flaws.
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Things of that import should be part of the public debate best left to Congress.
 

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Custer said:
Things of that import should be part of the public debate best left to Congress.
Agreed. While you and I may or may not agree that Affirmative Action is a good idea, I think we agree that the way its implemented is often pretty screwed up. It should have been subject to the sort of scrutiny and debate of a Congressional bill in order to craft the language of a workable law.
 

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DADDY WARBUCKS
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
While I think the President has much power to decide on what terms the government will do business with the private sector, I do not think he has the power to do so based upon race or sex criteria.

People might feel better calling them goals and timetables but everyone knows they are quotas for race preferences.

Now, I might see affirmative action as a remedy in a lawsuit where individuals or a group of identified individuals actually proved they were victims of specific acts of discrimination and this was a way to make them hole.

Using affirmative action for a nameless, faceless people simply because they belong to a group without evidence of specific damage to that person is against everything this country ought to stand for.

In other words, Michael Jordan's son could take advantage of an affirmative action plan for a job or to get into a top school when in fact he is the beneficiary of huge wealth and opportunity with no evidence that he has been held back in any aspect of his life because of his race.

Some poor white kid from Nowheresville has no affirmative action plan helping him and in fact, the existence of such plans actually keep him from becoming Horatio Alger.
 
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