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Ammo problem?

2320 Views 19 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  j427x
I'm having trouble with one of my ARs and can't figure it out. It's a Del-Ton 5.56 upper-20in. I've used a Rock River lower and one of my 80% lowers with a DPMS parts kit. I can shoot Fiocchi and Remington UMC with no prob with both lowers. OH- I have C-products and P-Mag mags. Anyway whenever I try to shoot any steel cased ammo I have probs no matter what mag or lower. It will load and fire 1 round-. But 90% of the time it will eject the case but not load the next round. Sometimes it might fire twice but not often. Hey 427- Do you have any ideas? Thanks Bill
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Load 1 round into a mag and see if the bolt locks back, if it doesn't then gun is short stroking. I've heard that wolf can be underpowered, your rifle may be undergassed too. Hell, even heavy grease can do it.

Check the rings, make sure they're not lining up, check the gas key for leakage, make sure the rifle's oiled or just a THIN coat of grease. Oh yeah, check the gas tube for restriction/blockage.

Absolute last resort is to open up the gas port.
Went today to try a few things- I pulled the whole bcg out of the Del-Ton and put one in from one of my Rock River ARs. It shot everything I fed it. I can't see any difference in the bolts or the carriers. I do know when I got the Del-Ton kit it had a tag saying not to shoot steel case ammo. I just want to be able to shoot anything out of any of my ARs. Any thoughts??
Possibly a plugged gas tube or a small gas port, or maybe even a burr stuck in the gas port from the machining process.

Does it lock open on the bolt hold open in the delton upper? If it doesn't then it is short stroking for sure.
I think it's got to be in the bolt or the carrier-I used the same Del-ton upper assembly, I just changed the Del-ton bolt and carrier for Rock River! I can't tell much of a diff between them by looking at them. Del-ton wont shoot steel and the Rock-River bolt and carrier in the Del-ton upper will shoot Russian. I'd hate to buy a Rock-River Bolt carrier group to put in it!
Is the gas key loose? I had this problem w/ one of my bushmasters, had to re-torque the bolts, and re-stake it.
Just checked- it's tight. I'm wondering what the diff is between Del-Ton and Rock River Bolt Carrier Groups. I can't see a difference but that's the prob. Why won't the del-ton run steel? I take that bcg out and put the rock-river bcg into the upper and it eats anything!! I might just go to RRA site and buy another bcg for that damn del-ton upper!!
I would try taking the bolt out, and switching it with the RRA bolt(put in the delton bolt carrier). Like 486 said, it might be the gas rings.
Thanks guys- I'll try to go Mon morning. It's got to be something small- I just haven't found it yet-but it drives me CRAZY!!
check the carrier for a loose gas key. then check the rings on the bolt make sure there not bent or broke and properly staggered. check the fit of the bolt in the carrier--too tight or too lose are no-go.

i have been seeing a lot of faulty gas rings lately.

while testing the rifle make sure it is lubed up good.

a partially obstructed gas tube can also cause this problem as can a bent one.

you want to be sure the gas tube is straight and not clogged. you also want the gas port in the barrel clean.

i had a LMT 16" that had the same problem--it had a tiny speck of metal lodged in the gas port in the barrel.

last resort is pulling the front sight base off and drilling the gas port hole out one size larger. i only do this if i have tried ever other trick to get the rifle up and running.


one last little thing to check-- i have been seeing a few barrels that are a little tight on the chamber side. combine that with too much pressure on the extractor spring and sometimes a stiff 0-ring there can cause some weird cycling problems.

do you have any problems cycling rounds through the weapon by hand cycling the action? if it extracts rounds but takes too much effort. this can be the problem.

if it is real close to functioning with the wolf ammo --but runs fine on UMC or other USA made stuff. it might pay off to just carefully clean the rifle and lube it up. then run some hotter ammo out of it fire a few mags of the good stuff. then try the wolf again.
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I ran into one rifle just recently that the bolt cam pin had the firing pin hole in it drilled off center, so the top rectangular part would jam in the upper on 2 corners of it. I stoned the corners and now it's good.

Pull the bolt into the unlocked position and see if the edges of the cam pin stick out from the plane of the side of the gas key.
I hand cycled a 20 round mag with no problems. My next move was to put the Rock River bolt in the Del ton carrier and the Del ton bolt in the RR carrier. I shot 30 rounds out of each-10 Fioccho, 10 Brown Bear, 10 Wolf. No problems!! I did notice the Del ton carrier was shorter in the back of the carrier- where the slot was machined. I still don't know whats going on. I will put them back the right way and see if they just needed a break-in like 427 said. Will let you guys know- Thanks Next up is a Model 1 7.62x39 ar that does the same thing!
Switched back and I had no problems today! Thanks for the help- next time I'll try to break it in even though with quality parts I don't think you should have to!!
Switched back and I had no problems today! Thanks for the help- next time I'll try to break it in even though with quality parts I don't think you should have to!!

with a LMT,DD,BCM,FN or colt bolt carrier i have never had these kind of problems. they have all ways run straight up out of the box.

i have seen a few deltons and other generic carriers that fit too tight on the bolt.

too tight is not all that bad. after a few rounds it will wear in a little and run fine. too loose you got a serious problem and will have to replace the carrier.

glad you got it running right--
Before I got this going I went to the Rock River website and saw they had chrome bolts and carrier for a limited time at the same price as a regular one. 130.00 with free shipping! Well- I got it Friday and I have to say its almost to pretty to get dirty- Ha Ha. I'll probably use this one and keep the Del-Ton for a spare. Thanks-Bill
here is another little tip

when changing a gas key by the FM book it says to put on a blank firing device and fire a few blank rounds.

blanks are very dirty so the new gas key will seal off with smut and then function normal.

this is why all the LMT bolt carriers come a bit dirty. they test fire them to get them to seal up then ship them.

it never hurts to have a spare carrier and besides you'll want to build another sooner or later.

i would guess the del-ton BCG since it has started working won't give any more problems.
Hey j427x-didn't you say you had a model 1 7.62 x 39 ar that ate anything you fed it? I have one and heres a question. It will shoot russian steel ammo but the damn thing won't shoot american brass! I have had a few ftf's with dented primers on russian but with good brass it will fire and sometimes stove-pipe or fire and eject but not load the next round. Using good c-products mags. Bill
Maybe I should start another thread
Hey j427x-didn't you say you had a model 1 7.62 x 39 ar that ate anything you fed it? I have one and heres a question. It will shoot russian steel ammo but the damn thing won't shoot american brass! I have had a few ftf's with dented primers on russian but with good brass it will fire and sometimes stove-pipe or fire and eject but not load the next round. Using good c-products mags. Bill

my wilson carbine h-bar barreled 7.62x39 had some serious stovepipe issues running wolf and any other type of ammo. it was the last wilson DTI had in stock during the obongo panic.

i did have to enlarge the gas port one size and it runs fine now. it is the one with the too tight (match)chamber that required some adjustments on the extractor springs and removal of the o-ring.

on a 7.62 you may have to trim the back side of the bolt some and or add a wolf extra power hammer spring. this is because the 7.62x39 ammo has hard and deep set primers. it needs a little more firing pin travel than a 5.56/5.45 does.

the wilson runs fine now it just required a little tuning to get right.


now that citadel 7.62x39 was super easy to get running --nearly as easy as a regular 5.56 barrel.

DSG has the wolf extra power hammer springs for $3 if you need them.

now on the USA made ammo not running --you got me there i never seen that before. could you have a bad batch that is short loaded?

it might pay to try another brand of ammo. winchester has all ways worked for me.

usually the short stroking is a wolf thing--LOL! keep me informed on how it goes.
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