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AR Airsoft Changeout

1391 Views 27 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  j427x
Hey, y'all remember the story about the NW toy dealer who had those AR airsoft rifles seized b/c "they could be turned into machine guns"?

Here's the followup story to that:
FOXNews.com - EXCLUSIVE: Toy Gun Sold in U.S. Can Easily be Converted to the Real Thing

Felons, illegal immigrants and all others banned from buying a gun in the United States have a new alternative if they’re looking to get their hands on a firearm: Just buy a toy.
A FoxNews.com investigation reveals that a popular recreational pellet gun can be converted easily to a real semi-automatic weapon. And while the federal Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is already aware of the issue, these “toys” -- new, top-of-the-line airsoft rifles -- continue to be sold throughout the country.
Like paintball without the paint, the propane-powered airsoft guns are designed to shoot quarter-inch plastic pellets and are generally used for recreation or in military and law enforcement training.
When the ATF seized a shipment of 30 of these guns in October from a port in Tacoma, Wash., it said they could be “readily convertible” to machine guns. But gun experts called that claim absurd and said the ATF was overstepping its bounds.
Now one of those critics is reversing his position, saying at least one airsoft manufacturer has taken the quest to be authentic a little too far.


“The airsoft can be converted to an AR-15,” firearms manufacturer Leo Gonnuscio told FoxNews.com after testing the make and model of airsoft guns seized by the ATF.
Having concluded that several other airsoft guns could not be converted to fire real ammunition, Gonnuscio said he was surprised to find that he was able to to transform this particular gun to the real thing -- and with “minimal work,” because its bottom half, or “receiver,” is so similar to an AR-15's.
To make the airsoft receiver function just like an AR-15’s, Gonnuscio said, “All you have to do is drill one hole.”
And once that's out of the way, the rest is even easier. The AR-15 receiver is the only part of the semi-automatic rifle that is given a serial number, and is the only part that is regulated. All the remaining parts of the real thing can be purchased by anyone – any kid, criminal or terrorist.
The cost of buying the Taiwan-made airsoft gun and all the parts needed to convert it to an AR-15 comes to roughly $1,100 -- more than the cost of some real AR-15s. But someone who can’t clear a background check or has been refused a gun for any other reason could use this method to make his own lethal weapon, Gonnuscio said.
Making it into a machine gun, he said, would require yet another conversion, and the makeshift gun would likely be able to fire only 15-20 rounds before it stopped working due to the pressure it would have to withstand while firing in an automatic fashion.
But as semi-automatic weapon, Gonnuscio said, “It may not last forever, but they’ve got a gun to get the job done that they were assigned to do, and nobody knows the wiser.”
The ATF has made no reported moves to regulate or seize any more of the airsoft guns, which continue to be sold in stores around the country, and it appears to be bowing to critics and reconsidering its stance on the guns' convertibility.
“We’re having to take a serious look at this, so it’s just something that we’re reviewing, and I’m hoping we’ll have some information that we can make available to the public certainly very soon,” ATF spokesman Drew Wade told FoxNews.com.
But firearms expert Len Savage said the ATF is taking a “serious look” at the wrong issue -- or, more specifically, the wrong part of the gun.
The reason it’s possible to make these airsoft receivers function as real receivers is that all an AR-15 receiver does is hold the gun together, Savage said. So with enough gun knowledge, almost anything can be made into a receiver.
“There’s a line of AR-15 firearms out there where the lower (the receiver) is made entirely of injection molded plastic … It could be made of cardboard and scotch tape,” he said.
The most important part of an AR-15, and the most difficult part to replicate, he said, is the upper half of the gun -- which is unmarked, unregulated and readily available for purchase.
“The upper is what contains the barrel, the breecher bolt, that’s what contains all the pressure,” Savage said.
He said the reason the lower half of the AR-15 is the part with the serial number, and thus classified as the receiver, is that it was up to the manufacturer to choose the location of the gun’s serial number. Because the bottom of the gun has a flat surface, it was the easiest to mark.
And though federal law has since defined a gun’s receiver as the part “which provides housing for the hammer, bolt, breechblock and firing mechanism,” Savage says the bureau has continued to mark and regulate the lower part of the AR-15 to avoid confusion.
“In the stream of commerce, you’d have uppers that were marked and regulated and then lowers that were marked and regulated, you could see the confusion on a dealer basis” in determining which parts require licensing and which don’t, Savage said.
But even though the upper half of the gun can be bought by anyone, Gonnuscio still says that banning the airsoft receivers and implementing a few new rules for airsoft manufacturers could be a good start to keeping unregulated AR-15s off the street.
“I would hope that the ATF applies pressure to the manufacturers of these airsoft guns to redesign them so they cannot be converted," he said. "Make them move the pin holes ... so that an upper can’t be attached to it without major machining.
"Fill in some of that gap so that they would literally have to chuck this thing up in a mill and totally reconfigure it to work. Tighten up the magazine well so a regular magazine won’t fit in it.”
And because the U.S. is such a big market for these airsoft guns, Gonnuscio said, a foreign manufacture would change the product if its current design were banned here.
“There are tons of good uses for these guns: We use them for training, kids do reenacting with them, kids get out there and play just like the old days. We played BB gun wars when we were kids and we survived. These are little plastic balls that are shot by electricity or propane.
"So let them have their toys. Just make sure they’re still toys.”
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Let me get this straight. Air Softs may be dangerous because someone with a drill press can possibly make the lower reciever into a poorly functioning, probably short lived rifle without papers?
Can't someone with a drill and a fixture legally turn an unfinished lower into a properly functioning rifle that will last as long as a regular AR?

ETA: Or does that require a dremel too?
I'm learning about the folks that contributed to the article.

Information about Len Savage: Savage Evidence File

"firearms manufacturer" Leo Gonnuscio (I think) owns a shop called Kind Mountain Gun Works.
Let me get this straight. Air Softs may be dangerous because someone with a drill press can possibly make the lower reciever into a poorly functioning, probably short lived rifle without papers?
Can't someone with a drill and a fixture legally turn an unfinished lower into a properly functioning rifle that will last as long as a regular AR?

ETA: Or does that require a dremel too?
I think they are also implying that you can just replace the lower and you have a shooter.
No, they are saying the lower on the airsoft is too much like a real AR15 lower and that all you have to do is drill 1 hole and it works just like an AR15 lower. At that point you simply buy an AR15 builder's kit (all the parts but the lower) and slap it on your toy lower. AR15 with no paper trail. $1,100 junk rifle, but it can be done apparently.
The cost of buying the Taiwan-made airsoft gun and all the parts needed to convert it to an AR-15 comes to roughly $1,100 -- more than the cost of some real AR-15s. But someone who can’t clear a background check or has been refused a gun for any other reason could use this method to make his own lethal weapon
I hope they don't find out K-VAR has a sale on AK flats for $5 each...
No, they are saying the lower on the airsoft is too much like a real AR15 lower and that all you have to do is drill 1 hole and it works just like an AR15 lower. At that point you simply buy an AR15 builder's kit (all the parts but the lower) and slap it on your toy lower. AR15 with no paper trail. $1,100 junk rifle, but it can be done apparently.
What would happen if I bought an upper, an unfinished lower, a drill and a fixture?
Why I'd have legally constructed an AR with no paper trail.
I've also heard rumors that it just might be possible to legally construct some other kind of semiautomatic rifle in a way that doesn't result in a paper trail. I know the name also starts with an A. Maybe AJ? Maybe AL? Anyway it's A something.
What would happen if I bought an upper, an unfinished lower, a drill and a fixture?
Why I'd have legally constructed an AR with no paper trail.
My goodness, do you think "the internet" would have any information on that sort of evil thing?
It IS easy to make a functional gun out of an Airsoft gun.

Just buy an AR lower receiver,
an AR upper receiver,
all of the FCG parts,
a real barrel and delta ring assemble
a real gas tube and gas block,
a real carrier and bolt group,
a real stock set,
any other parts that I forgot,
Put them all together and throw away all of the Airsoft crap and,
VIOLA!!!!
You have a real gun.
Mike
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There are now like 27 pages worth of comments w/ this article. Some of them are pretty hilarious. Most of them echo what we already see, and most of them make commentary on the extremely poor journalism that went into this article. Several of them demand the article be pulled.
what we have he is the MSM reaching out as far as they can to smear firearms and airsoft replicas.

so what is next? ban sheet metal because someone might make a sheet meter lower that might work? ban blocks of steel because someone might make a AK out of a solid chunk?

how about plastic? how about a wooden lower--lets just ban trees! better yet lets ban drill presses and dremmel tools!

the perp has to have power to run these machines used to make illegal firearms --lets just ban electrical power too!

see this entire train of thought is just nuts. maybe their off their meds again too.
how about a wooden lower--lets just ban trees!
A few years ago there was a news report about someone who had invented a "sustainable" bicycle, that could be built in poor countries out of nothing more than bamboo. I spent some time searching the web and found essentially the same article on half a dozen sites, most of them prestigious newspapers, which apparently picked it off one of the news wires and ran it.

Someone had made a bicycle with a bamboo frame. Yes, it had been done before, several times, but they didn't mention that. Apparently this guy put a heavy "green" spin on his, and the papers sucked it right up. Poor Somalis, Pakistanis, and Yakuts could build these wild new bicycles and achieve personal transportation! The New Millennium had arrived!

Unfortunately, none of the liberal-arts idiots in the newschain seemed to know that the fancy epoxy used to stick it together didn't ooze from trees, that tires weren't made from rope, or that ball bearings don't come off the ball-bearing bush. Technologically, a bicycle is much closer to my Bandit 1200 than to an oxcart. A ball bearing you can buy for $3 stands at the apex of probably a hundred million dollars of equipment and 150 years of heavy technological development. Making your own epoxy is even more complex. And the bike still had the usual rims, spokes, hubs, brakes, chain, etc.

By their reasoning, the balsa wood composite floor of a C6 Corvette should make it "sustainable" too...
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Here are some photos I shamelessly stole from another site. I don't know what I'm looking at but it's apparently a comparison between one of these airsoft guns and an AR. Which one is which?
ar-15 top left, m16 top right,

air-soft on the bottom.

my guess is that it wouldn't be all that easy to construct a ar lower from an air soft lower.
My goodness, do you think "the internet" would have any information on that sort of evil thing?
I certainly hope not!
What kind of person would reveal information on the information superhighway that might encourage someone to legally construct their own firearm?
The concept is beyond shocking! I'm certain the Al Gore did not intend such a use when he invented the internet.
I think everybody is missing the point here. It's not that one can construct a rifle from blanks and such, it's that this particular airsoft lower is so close to the real thing that ATF considers it an AR lower, not a toy. When one wants to sell an AR "80% receiver blank" one is wise to send in a sample to ATF for a determination if it is a receiver or not. The usual process is you complete the unit to a certain stage and submit, based on the reply you then might add more machine work or subtract some and resubmit until you determine the exact point where one more cut takes it over the line. That is then what you sell, legally just a chunk of metal but still easiest for the DIYer to complete. With only one hole needed to convert it, this airsoft is way easier than the typical receiver blank and has clearly crossed that line. I can see ATF's concern here, assuming the one hole thing is correct. The chances someone would actually do so are infinitely small due to the expense, but the lower receivers themselves are the issue.
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With only one hole needed to convert it, this airsoft is way easier than the typical receiver blank and has clearly crossed that line.
IIRC (and I may not) the last "80%" AR lower I saw required the end user to drill two holes.
Assuming the article is correct, this Air Soft requires the end user to drill one hole.
Two holes versus one hole reminds me of the debate concerning how many angels are able to dance on the head of a pin.
Over the years I've seen guns made from, pipes (steel and the smoking kind), PVC tubing, car antennas, copper tubing, and bamboo.
ANY halfway intelligent criminal (an oxymoron!) can make what they used to call "zip guns" from crap in any garage.
The Feds are simply picking on an easy target to justify their existence.
It's a lot safer than chasing real gun runners and dope smugglers.
Mike
.....
It's a lot safer than chasing real gun runners and dope smugglers.
Mike
I think this is true and the fact that these are those scary 'BLACK' guns. Makes it look like they are doing something instead of sucking at the government teat.
If they are going to ban toys watch out they will be banning wood, rubber bands,, nails black tape, and any cylindrical type pipe. That and about 5 minutes is all that it takes to make a zip gun like we used to in the 60's. Don't even need a drill press.
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