After the awb sunsets and if we have a small window of opportunity I have a build in mind. I would like to build(or have built) a pmkms with the functioning folder, barrel threads and bayo. lug. Will I have to purchase my reciever after the sunset to make it legal or can I get the reciever now and not build it 'till after the sunset? It'd be nice to gather all the parts and wait to assemble them, but something tells me that the serial# on the reciever will tell the date and therefore decide it's legal status. Thanks for any help.
Build after the sunset
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My thought is that "if" the ban sunsets then there won't be any pre or post bans anymore per se. It will be like it never happened in the first place. So one could add all the features to guns manufactured during those 10 years.
I do personally agree that there will only be a "window" of opportunity. Just think of the mad rush to buy everything up. Then think about the builds, are you going to have to take it to an FFL to "register" it? hmmm....
I do personally agree that there will only be a "window" of opportunity. Just think of the mad rush to buy everything up. Then think about the builds, are you going to have to take it to an FFL to "register" it? hmmm....
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Supposedly, someone over at the Forbidden Zone (Goonsnet) contacted the ATF and they said that only receivers manufactured AFTER THE DATE THE BAN SUNSETS will be eligible for pre-ban features.
My humble opinion: no one, including ATF, will know until September.
I say chill out until then. (You can't do your build until after the sunset anyway, so this gives you time to find out for sure).
My humble opinion: no one, including ATF, will know until September.
I say chill out until then. (You can't do your build until after the sunset anyway, so this gives you time to find out for sure).
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What is simple is true..........
When (if) the AWB expires it is no longer a law , therefore there will be no pre/post/during ban guns,only semi-autos.
Think of it like Prohibition,while that law was in effect booze was illegal.
The day Prohibition was overturned booze was legal.
It is just that simple.
AWB in effect no bayonet lugs, etc.
After AWB expires bayonet lugs, etc will be legal on all semi autos , PERIOD !
A law that is no longer a law IS NOT ENFORCEABLE !
When (if) the AWB expires it is no longer a law , therefore there will be no pre/post/during ban guns,only semi-autos.
Think of it like Prohibition,while that law was in effect booze was illegal.
The day Prohibition was overturned booze was legal.
It is just that simple.
AWB in effect no bayonet lugs, etc.
After AWB expires bayonet lugs, etc will be legal on all semi autos , PERIOD !
A law that is no longer a law IS NOT ENFORCEABLE !
In this attorney's humble (yea who ever heard of a humble attorney) the things Triangle 66 said are absolutely correct. If the law sunsets, there is no law, nothing, nada, zip, etc. Any passage of a law thereafter and attempt to wrap newly feeded weapons, would be expost facto, ie unconstitutional. Jack
Triangle 66 said:
So applying that logic, I could have all my parts and the reciever sitting in a box. The day of the sunset I could start the build and it would be legal regardless of the date of manufacture of the reciever. After thinking about it for a minute that makes sense, after the sunset the law no longer exists. So there will be no pre-, post- or post-post-ban, just a sweet underfolder pmkms in my safe. :woo:
I would still like to get BATFE's interpretation of the situation first.
I've got a couple of months to wait on my reciever yet.
I would still like to get BATFE's interpretation of the situation first.
I've got a couple of months to wait on my reciever yet.
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A wise move.pmbiker said:
I am hopeful that scubadvr's interpretation is correct, but I know from too much experience that BATFE is sometimes capricious enough to dream up regulations where a "law" technically doesn't exist. Witness how barrels from parts kits were once perfectly acceptable for new rifle builds, but now are not. From what I understand of that situation, the only difference was a change in "interpretation" of existing regulations.
As another example, right after the 1989-1990 ban on imported assault rifles, it was unknown by local gunshops for months whether it was actually legal or not to stick a hi-cap mag in a MAK90. One gunshop I dealt with patently refused to sell hi-cap AK mags at the same time you bought the rifle. You had to come back another day for the mags!
In my local shooting club, different people have called BATFE asking primarily the same question, and have gotten different answers.
Unfortunately, this just adds to the confusion.
I read one post where the person suggested that after the ban sunsets, the major manufacturers will bend over backwards to be in compliance with whatever rules emerge or go away, and it will therefore be safe to do as these manufacturers do. It may, however, take months for the exact scenario to emerge.
zoid is also correct, it seems as of lately, the ATF have been able to write federal law with the wave of their wand...
I belive they will make every attempt to screw us..
Also kepp very watchfull of clandestine attempts to instate a new ban under the radar, All 3 C-SPAN networks have become regular viewing for me..And should be for all of us...Remember, they don't need a gun bill, to attach a ammendment to, they can use anything....
I belive they will make every attempt to screw us..
Also kepp very watchfull of clandestine attempts to instate a new ban under the radar, All 3 C-SPAN networks have become regular viewing for me..And should be for all of us...Remember, they don't need a gun bill, to attach a ammendment to, they can use anything....
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UGH !
The minute the AWB expires I WILL assemble a semi auto rifle that accepts a high capacity magazine , has a bayonet lug , a threaded barrel , a flashider , pistol grip,folding stock and is a semi auto 'copy' of a machine gun - namely the AKM.
AFTER THE BAN EXPIRES the above will be legal and NO ONE (who is allowed to own a gun ) can be arrested for doing likewise !!!!!!!!!!
It will NO LONGER BE ILLEGAL .
The ATF,CIA,FBI,ad nauseum CAN NOT CHARGE YOU WITH SOMETHING THAT IS LEGAL TO DO.
:rant: :rant:
The minute the AWB expires I WILL assemble a semi auto rifle that accepts a high capacity magazine , has a bayonet lug , a threaded barrel , a flashider , pistol grip,folding stock and is a semi auto 'copy' of a machine gun - namely the AKM.
AFTER THE BAN EXPIRES the above will be legal and NO ONE (who is allowed to own a gun ) can be arrested for doing likewise !!!!!!!!!!
It will NO LONGER BE ILLEGAL .
The ATF,CIA,FBI,ad nauseum CAN NOT CHARGE YOU WITH SOMETHING THAT IS LEGAL TO DO.
:rant: :rant:
Here is the real problem, you got a really nice kit, you got every thing necessary to complete the build, and it is August first. The problem: the wait! By the way, at a gun show this last Sunday I noticed a definite decrease in the prices for preban weapons, mostly ARs.
You aint talkin about the Monroeville show are you?? I did see a few lowered preban prices, but mostly poll smokers with the same way overpriced stuff they been draging there for more than a year..scubadvr said:
See the guy that had all of those preban AKs in the boxes.. %1895.00 for a used Legend in the box....He has had those guns every time there, for a year or better..He also has a Poly tube side folder for $1395.00, he bought that of a fellow at the Jan show for $700 IIRC, I heard him make the offer, after the guy walked away, I asked how much and he said $1400, I told him I heard howm much he paid and would give him $800, he would make a $100 profit in 5 minuted time, he said no!! well there he was, carying it again this month...hehehe
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That sounds logical, so that the "post-ban" rifles will retain their low value and post-SUNSET rifles will increase in price/value.ZOID ZODIAN said:
SHEESH what if they say that only post-SUNSET *KITS* are qualified for pre-ban builds? Hrm, maybe I *will* wait for the ban to sunset before finishing off my other kits!!!
I don't know, I was kind of disappointed with the selection. I noticed the Poly, and stuff like that are so outragous that I just pretty much walk by. I keep holding out the hope that I will some day run up on SAR3. I also noticed that I did not see many FALs. Im going to Harrisburg this weekend. Heard thats a pretty good show. Jackmike26038 said:
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hcpookie said:
Your reasoning sounds a lot like mine; I use as my prima facie example the ban on barrels from parts kits being used to build new rifles.
I purchased a barrel with all the sight and gas block hardware back in 1998; therefore it qualifies for using it to build a rifle.
Other people who purchased their barrels too late found out that they could only be legally used for repair or replacement on a rifle that had already been built.
This is similar to the SKS bayonet nonsense, i.e., that a Russian, Yugo, or Romanian SKS is okay to have the bayonet, but don't dare install one on a Chinese SKS.
The way I see it, these Gummunt Bureecrats don't want to surrender any more of their power than they have to after the sunset, so OF COURSE they're going to interpret the sunset in the narrowest way possible:
1. Only imported rifles with 10 or fewer imported parts will qualify for pre-ban features.
2. Only rifles (a.k.a. receivers) manufactured after the sunset date will quality for pre-ban features.
3. Post-ban rifles will still qualify for the installation of the pistol grip, but only if the 10-or-fewer imported parts rule is adhered to.
So, the ultimate result will be, instead of all of this mess magically going away after September, BATFE will just add another class of weapons to the list, like the way Class III firearms are in different categories.
This is all just my "educated" speculation, but I predict we will see PRE-BAN, POST-BAN, AND POST-SUNSET classes of weapons after the expiration of the Assault Weapons Ban in September.
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Being the cynic that I am it would not be surprising to see what Zoid is suggesting.
I'm kind of waiting to put my AMD-63 together until latger this summer for the reasons that some have stated. Hopefully the AWB nonsense goes the way of manual washing machines and ink well pens.
I'm kind of waiting to put my AMD-63 together until latger this summer for the reasons that some have stated. Hopefully the AWB nonsense goes the way of manual washing machines and ink well pens.
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Don't interpret this as jumping all over your terminology, SangRun, but you're not giving yourself enough credit...SangRun Hunter said:
You and I and most other people on these boards have enough experience with our chosen type of weapon that we can now be considered "veterans" of the legality wars over assault weapons.
Simply put, I don't think you're being cynical, just realistic...
Guys, lighten up. The only concern I have is that some how Finestein and her buddies pull off an over night trick and some how the ban is extended. I also worry that Bush may cave trying to pander to the moderates. Remember he is above everything else a politician. If the ban does sunset then I really think we are in the clear. Jack
Guys, listen to scubadvr. I do a fair amount of legal reading myself, from a different point of view though! If you have looked at the actual law, it will be pretty apparent that if it fades away you will be free to add folding stocks, flash hiders, etc. To get in trouble there would have to be a law prohibiting what you are doing. So no law against it = OK. That is how laws work. That is why we have so many laws!
However- for AK's you will still need to comply with the imported parts requirement. (Different law if I recall correctly) In other words, an AK with a folding stock or flash hider is not importable (by gov't interpretation of a "sporting weapon"), so you can't build one that would have more than 10 imported countable parts. So the answer is to add US parts and build it however you want. The "sporting weapon" interpretation is not applicable to US made guns. (Unless you are talking about something over .50" bore...)
I talked to an ATF guy recently about the ban expiring and he could have cared less- to him the whole AWB was just a hassle. I got the impression that many at ATF were hoping the ban would go away, because it is not high on the priority list anyhow and they don't want to deal with it. Keep in mind- in 9-1/2 years, have you ever heard of ATF going after someone for violation of the AWB? Not a whole lot of bayonet lug convictions, are there?
Don't get me wrong though- paranoia is ok, just look at Interordanance! There is a story I would like to hear the full details on!
However- for AK's you will still need to comply with the imported parts requirement. (Different law if I recall correctly) In other words, an AK with a folding stock or flash hider is not importable (by gov't interpretation of a "sporting weapon"), so you can't build one that would have more than 10 imported countable parts. So the answer is to add US parts and build it however you want. The "sporting weapon" interpretation is not applicable to US made guns. (Unless you are talking about something over .50" bore...)
I talked to an ATF guy recently about the ban expiring and he could have cared less- to him the whole AWB was just a hassle. I got the impression that many at ATF were hoping the ban would go away, because it is not high on the priority list anyhow and they don't want to deal with it. Keep in mind- in 9-1/2 years, have you ever heard of ATF going after someone for violation of the AWB? Not a whole lot of bayonet lug convictions, are there?
Don't get me wrong though- paranoia is ok, just look at Interordanance! There is a story I would like to hear the full details on!
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