You can put one together for less than that
DPMS or Century AR15
I've got a lot of money in my AR. Still, I feel I need another one. One that won't cost an arm and a leg. So, who's better at building ARs? DPMS? Or Century?
The Century that I'm lookin' at is a 20" model with A1 sights for $720.
The DPMS is a 16" model with A2 sights and a detatchable carry handle for $730.
Which would you choose and why?
The Century gives me more range, but I really prefer the A2 sights.
The DPMS has the A2 sights, but I hate the knobs that stick out on the left side.
The DPMS is a promo sale only good for the next 24 hours, should I decide to purchase it.
The Century is not on sale, and the price should remain the same for at least a few weeks.
This will be my last AR. I want something that isn't expensive, accurate, and fairly light weight. Truthfully, it'll be my spare, loaner (i.e., what I'll give to friends and relatives if and when shtf), girlfriend rifle all rolled into one.
Which would you choose and why?
Thanks
Rage
The Century that I'm lookin' at is a 20" model with A1 sights for $720.
The DPMS is a 16" model with A2 sights and a detatchable carry handle for $730.
Which would you choose and why?
The Century gives me more range, but I really prefer the A2 sights.
The DPMS has the A2 sights, but I hate the knobs that stick out on the left side.
The DPMS is a promo sale only good for the next 24 hours, should I decide to purchase it.
The Century is not on sale, and the price should remain the same for at least a few weeks.
This will be my last AR. I want something that isn't expensive, accurate, and fairly light weight. Truthfully, it'll be my spare, loaner (i.e., what I'll give to friends and relatives if and when shtf), girlfriend rifle all rolled into one.
Which would you choose and why?
Thanks
Rage
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Its been a couple years since I've looked at a dpms, but I've never been impressed with them. The one I had was loose in the mag well front to back so not all mag followers would activate the bolt hold open. My hunting buddies barrel extension came undone while putting on a free float tube. Another friend brought over his work rifle for me to put a sling mount on it and the finish on it was heavily sand blasted finish. Even on the charging handle and buffer tube? How crappy is your maching that you feel compelled to mask everything with a sandblaster? Maybe it was a low bid government contract thing, but I don't think so.
Century has a spoty record for quality control. I agree with BBill in that you can put one together for cheaper and you'll most likely end up with a better gun.
Century has a spoty record for quality control. I agree with BBill in that you can put one together for cheaper and you'll most likely end up with a better gun.
i think CDNN still has a few of those optics flattops smith and wesson m4 types on sale for $699. the smith is considered better than either of those. you once got like 20 mags free to boot --i don't know if they still give away mags with an ar anymore though.
as far as i know there is nothing wrong with the DPMS or the century other than they are more of the middle of the road types.
if i had to get an AR-15 type today i would build one of those DSA $275 m4 uppers with that $60 DSA blem lower. you can finish it up with a $50 LPK. $105 bcg,$15 charging handle and a cheapo $30 CAR stock this adds up to about $535 plus shipping and transfer fee for the lower.
even cheaper still a AK.parts $400 kit and a $60 DSA blem lower--you probably looking at $500 when you add shipping and transfer fees. some frett about the quality of these. i haven't built one. i have seen a few that were finished they seemed OK but the finish on the uppers looked rough and the plastic stuff looked a bit on the cheap side. but they did shoot OK.
since the most the DSA build could cost might be $100 more and you can pick and chose your bolt carriers and other parts. the DSA cost more than a grand for the rifle in retail. the DSA will have considerable better re-sale value than a a DPMS or century and way more than a AK-parts kit as well. don't think it re-sale value would be as good as the smith though? might be wrong on that though.
as far as i know there is nothing wrong with the DPMS or the century other than they are more of the middle of the road types.
if i had to get an AR-15 type today i would build one of those DSA $275 m4 uppers with that $60 DSA blem lower. you can finish it up with a $50 LPK. $105 bcg,$15 charging handle and a cheapo $30 CAR stock this adds up to about $535 plus shipping and transfer fee for the lower.
even cheaper still a AK.parts $400 kit and a $60 DSA blem lower--you probably looking at $500 when you add shipping and transfer fees. some frett about the quality of these. i haven't built one. i have seen a few that were finished they seemed OK but the finish on the uppers looked rough and the plastic stuff looked a bit on the cheap side. but they did shoot OK.
since the most the DSA build could cost might be $100 more and you can pick and chose your bolt carriers and other parts. the DSA cost more than a grand for the rifle in retail. the DSA will have considerable better re-sale value than a a DPMS or century and way more than a AK-parts kit as well. don't think it re-sale value would be as good as the smith though? might be wrong on that though.
Its been a couple years since I've looked at a dpms, but I've never been impressed with them. The one I had was loose in the mag well front to back so not all mag followers would activate the bolt hold open. My hunting buddies barrel extension came undone while putting on a free float tube. Another friend brought over his work rifle for me to put a sling mount on it and the finish on it was heavily sand blasted finish. Even on the charging handle and buffer tube? How crappy is your maching that you feel compelled to mask everything with a sandblaster? Maybe it was a low bid government contract thing, but I don't think so.
Century has a spoty record for quality control. I agree with BBill in that you can put one together for cheaper and you'll most likely end up with a better gun.
i think DPMS and oly put out some crappy stuff years ago. i have handled a number of DPMS rifles in recent years and they were all very good on the machine work.
to the OP--if you want a DPMS i think you should shop around a bit more. i have seen them for closer to $600
i also forgot to mention Del-ton for kits, JSE for kits and parts and J&T for kits. you can get a very decent kit for $400+ with everything you need for a build EXCEPT the lower.
PS i think the CDNN $699 S&W ar-15 deal expired yesterday at 15:00H
I've thought about putting one together. A local store had a Delaware Machine lower for around $108 out the door. That's cheaper than the $60 blem lower by the time I add shipping and FFL fees to the price.
My problem with building one centers around headspacing. I have no clue how to do it, and don't know that I trust myself if I did.
Still, I've considered it frequently.
Those DSA uppers for $275 sure sound like a great deal.
Anybody got a link?
Thanks to all for answering.
Rage
My problem with building one centers around headspacing. I have no clue how to do it, and don't know that I trust myself if I did.
Still, I've considered it frequently.
Those DSA uppers for $275 sure sound like a great deal.
Anybody got a link?
Thanks to all for answering.
Rage
Copes has complete colt kits for $499... how can you go wrong... I have one of these, great shooter.I've thought about putting one together. A local store had a Delaware Machine lower for around $108 out the door. That's cheaper than the $60 blem lower by the time I add shipping and FFL fees to the price.
My problem with building one centers around headspacing. I have no clue how to do it, and don't know that I trust myself if I did.
Still, I've considered it frequently.
Those DSA uppers for $275 sure sound like a great deal.
Anybody got a link?
Thanks to all for answering.
Rage
Mark
one of the reasons AR-15m16s are so well loved is the easy smithing on them.I've thought about putting one together. A local store had a Delaware Machine lower for around $108 out the door. That's cheaper than the $60 blem lower by the time I add shipping and FFL fees to the price.
My problem with building one centers around headspacing. I have no clue how to do it, and don't know that I trust myself if I did.
Still, I've considered it frequently.
Those DSA uppers for $275 sure sound like a great deal.
Anybody got a link?
Thanks to all for answering.
Rage
the AR-15/m16 series head space off the barrel extension. all barrel-extension/barrels combos are set up at the factory to head space on a new bolt. the barrel and its extension are head spaced as a unit.
so any new bolt and new barrel --even a bolt of another make--will head space proper on a new barrel.
a colt barrel and LMT bolt--no problem . a DPMS bolt and a wilson barrel? no problem. ANY in spec bolt will headspace on any barrel & extension that is built to GI spec provided their not worn.
i all ways check the head space on all AR uppers i build anyway just in case some one slipped in a bad part.
but if i didn't have all the correct tools and was building only one rifle i would feel OK with getting the parts and bolting them up provided they came from a good outfit.
the great thing about being modular as long as everybody is on the same page their parts will work.
aside from a few fly-by night parts sources and a few shady folks tossing some import junk you have about 100% parts interchangeability.
the only time i have ever seen quality ar-15 bolts that wouldn't head space were some very old GI surplus bolts and new barrels.
here is some links to DSA. now remember this is a factory--it ain't one of those mall-ninja botquie places that fill your order in seconds and ship the next day. it takes up to two weeks to get an order filled and shipped.
the do have mid-length and chromed lined barrels for a little more--$300 and $325 i think.
DSA ZM4 Forged 7075T6 A3 AR15 Upper Receiver - DSZM4CBU-D S Arms
here is some links
Lowers & Uppers-D S Arms
AR15/M16 Rifles-D S Arms
one of the reasons AR-15m16s are so well loved is the easy smithing on them.
the AR-15/m16 series head space off the barrel extension. all barrel-extension/barrels combos are set up at the factory to head space on a new bolt. the barrel and its extension are head spaced as a unit.
so any new bolt and new barrel --even a bolt of another make--will head space proper on a new barrel.
a colt barrel and LMT bolt--no problem . a DPMS bolt and a wilson barrel? no problem. ANY in spec bolt will headspace on any barrel & extension that is built to GI spec provided their not worn.
i all ways check the head space on all AR uppers i build anyway just in case some one slipped in a bad part.
but if i didn't have all the correct tools and was building only one rifle i would feel OK with getting the parts and bolting them up provided they came from a good outfit.
the great thing about being modular as long as everybody is on the same page their parts will work.
aside from a few fly-by night parts sources and a few shady folks tossing some import junk you have about 100% parts interchangeability.
the only time i have ever seen quality ar-15 bolts that wouldn't head space were some very old GI surplus bolts and new barrels.
here is some links to DSA. now remember this is a factory--it ain't one of those mall-ninja botquie places that fill your order in seconds and ship the next day. it takes up to two weeks to get an order filled and shipped.
the do have mid-length and chromed lined barrels for a little more--$300 and $325 i think.
DSA ZM4 Forged 7075T6 A3 AR15 Upper Receiver - DSZM4CBU-D S Arms
here is some links
Lowers & Uppers-D S Arms
AR15/M16 Rifles-D S Arms
Great info! Thanks a million!!! After reading what people wrote overnight/this morning, I did a web search and found DSA's website. Yeah, those $300 mid-lengths w/ fluted barrels sure sound nice.
Rage
Copes?Copes has complete colt kits for $499... how can you go wrong... I have one of these, great shooter.
Mark
Another web search is in order.
Rage
Found the Copes website and the AR15 kit mentioned above.
Got a bit to think about.
Thanks again to all.
Rage
Got a bit to think about.
Thanks again to all.
Rage
Ooops, I said "Century" and I should have said "Olympic" for $725.I've got a lot of money in my AR. Still, I feel I need another one. One that won't cost an arm and a leg. So, who's better at building ARs? DPMS? Or Century?
The Century that I'm lookin' at is a 20" model with A1 sights for $720.
The DPMS is a 16" model with A2 sights and a detatchable carry handle for $730.
Which would you choose and why?
The Century gives me more range, but I really prefer the A2 sights.
The DPMS has the A2 sights, but I hate the knobs that stick out on the left side.
The DPMS is a promo sale only good for the next 24 hours, should I decide to purchase it.
The Century is not on sale, and the price should remain the same for at least a few weeks.
This will be my last AR. I want something that isn't expensive, accurate, and fairly light weight. Truthfully, it'll be my spare, loaner (i.e., what I'll give to friends and relatives if and when shtf), girlfriend rifle all rolled into one.
Which would you choose and why?
Thanks
Rage
Rage
Hello DPMS and Rock River Arms are pretty good for your money, you can buy only the upper complete with long barrel, heavy barrel or short barrel with optic mounted etc and swith the uppers on and off your lower simply pushing out two pins on the lower and make sure your pin size is correct, colt had large pin that will not fit "universel" AR 15 with small .154 pin. You could even have a 50 cal BMG barrel upper, if you could afford it. You could look for a used rifle if need to save money. As your concern about your headspace, if you buy new barrel, be sure to get same brand name new bolt with barrel it's pretty much right on the correct headspace from the factory. Good luck IRONMULE
Hello Sorry to add a bigger burdening load on your search, check out the Model One Sales from Texas and check out Rock River Arms from Illinois, lots of choices and not big enough wallet. IRONMULE
Thanks for the info, Ironmule.
One of my concerns is that I'd buy an upper with a particular sized pin hole, and a lower with another.
Rage
One of my concerns is that I'd buy an upper with a particular sized pin hole, and a lower with another.
Rage
Thats probably just my good ole luck then. The dpms I owned was a cast gun the early-mid 90's, my buddies that the locking shoulder loosened up on was from the awb era as it had a pinned on flash hider. My old work buddies rough finish gun was from 2-3 years ago and is owned/bought by the sheriffs dept which is a far cry from the rebuilt ithica 12 ga featherweight they gave me to use back in the day. I have 3 olympics and haven't had any of the problems you hear about on the internet.i think DPMS and oly put out some crappy stuff years ago. i have handled a number of DPMS rifles in recent years and they were all very good on the machine work.
i remember years ago--er decades ago when you could buy a FN-FAL that was like new for $220 with the scope & mount and everything-Thats probably just my good ole luck then. The dpms I owned was a cast gun the early-mid 90's, my buddies that the locking shoulder loosened up on was from the awb era as it had a pinned on flash hider. My old work buddies rough finish gun was from 2-3 years ago and is owned/bought by the sheriffs dept which is a far cry from the rebuilt ithica 12 ga featherweight they gave me to use back in the day. I have 3 olympics and haven't had any of the problems you hear about on the internet.
-i looked at an olympic at a gunshow it was rough as a cobb and it was an astounding $500! it looked b to be a cast upper and lower--rough-rough. wich was a hell of a lot of when FAL's and hk G's were going for $250 a pop and a new mini-14 was $189!
i looked at another one a couple years ago. gigantic improvement in quality. and best of all forged not cast like the good old days. i think olys forgings are very similar to mega machine --though i have yet to find proof of it.
i think DPMS went through the same kind of ordeal--many of the very old examples of their ar's were cast. their later forgings are very good. i built a DPMS lower last year and it is as good as any i have. it is not my favorite though cause it cost me $120+ shipping! LOL but it is very good. at least as good as bushmaster.
i would avoid the "plinker' though--LOL!
Okay, I admit that I've always had a thing for SP1s.
And the kit from Cope's looks mighty tempting.
But I don't know which pin size it takes (I assume large), or the barrel twist on the new barrels (1/12, 1/9, or 1/7), not to mention whether they are chrome lined or not. Also, the barrel is in the white. Thus, I'd need to probably strip everything down, reciever and other parts, and have them all refinished to match. I have no clue what that'll cost me.
Also, there is a question about necessary tools to get the job done. I know I'll need an armorer's wrench. But I suspect I'll need more than that. Does anybody know how much I'll have to invest (approximately) in tools?
Finally, how hard would it be to have a machinist redrill a small pin lower reciever to fit a large pin upper?
Seriously, if I could get everything together, the Copes deal sounds the best.
OTOH, it might be worth it to save the headache and buy a lower from my local shop, and then the DSA upper for $300. I'd be guaranteed small holes for both the upper and the lower. Thus, it should go together much easier. Of course, I'd still have to build the lower, and buy bolt carrier and key.
In short, the parts for the Cope's package would be $500 + $110 for a lower, plus finishing the barrel, plus tools, plus any machining that needed to be done to make the small hole upper mate with the large hole lower.
The other route would $110 for the lower, $300 for the upper, around $70 for the FCG, another $50+ for a buttstock, and probably around $130 for a bolt, carrier, key and charging handle. No refinishing, no machining, and fewer tools necessary.
Am I missing anything?
Rage
And the kit from Cope's looks mighty tempting.
But I don't know which pin size it takes (I assume large), or the barrel twist on the new barrels (1/12, 1/9, or 1/7), not to mention whether they are chrome lined or not. Also, the barrel is in the white. Thus, I'd need to probably strip everything down, reciever and other parts, and have them all refinished to match. I have no clue what that'll cost me.
Also, there is a question about necessary tools to get the job done. I know I'll need an armorer's wrench. But I suspect I'll need more than that. Does anybody know how much I'll have to invest (approximately) in tools?
Finally, how hard would it be to have a machinist redrill a small pin lower reciever to fit a large pin upper?
Seriously, if I could get everything together, the Copes deal sounds the best.
OTOH, it might be worth it to save the headache and buy a lower from my local shop, and then the DSA upper for $300. I'd be guaranteed small holes for both the upper and the lower. Thus, it should go together much easier. Of course, I'd still have to build the lower, and buy bolt carrier and key.
In short, the parts for the Cope's package would be $500 + $110 for a lower, plus finishing the barrel, plus tools, plus any machining that needed to be done to make the small hole upper mate with the large hole lower.
The other route would $110 for the lower, $300 for the upper, around $70 for the FCG, another $50+ for a buttstock, and probably around $130 for a bolt, carrier, key and charging handle. No refinishing, no machining, and fewer tools necessary.
Am I missing anything?
Rage
I've always had good luck with DPMS.
i bought a barrel wrench from numrich for $10 and i just recently bought a stock wrench form CDNN i think it cost $1.99
you can build an AR-15 from a kit with just household tools. i have built some with vice grips and channel lock pliers and a decent flat screwdriver. the only really special tool you need is for assembling the upper and that is the barrel wrench. there are web pages on the net that describe the process with tools or the pliers and vice grip method.
most people just buy the upper assembled and build the lower. you can even skip that step and buy an assembled lower. since your sourcing your lower local your going to have to assemble it yourself.
the only thing difficult about a AR-15 lower is that one little spring loaded retaining pin that keeps the front hinge pin from falling out. those little flea sized things will shoot out into outer space if your not real careful. once those little flea sized pins are lost--there really lost!
on the colt kit uses the standard size pins i think. it is the sporting colts that use the large pin. i don't know if the colt kit is for you. all that upper assembly is a bit more involved than a standard kit build. an upper can be a fussy thing if you haven't built one before.
you can build an AR-15 from a kit with just household tools. i have built some with vice grips and channel lock pliers and a decent flat screwdriver. the only really special tool you need is for assembling the upper and that is the barrel wrench. there are web pages on the net that describe the process with tools or the pliers and vice grip method.
most people just buy the upper assembled and build the lower. you can even skip that step and buy an assembled lower. since your sourcing your lower local your going to have to assemble it yourself.
the only thing difficult about a AR-15 lower is that one little spring loaded retaining pin that keeps the front hinge pin from falling out. those little flea sized things will shoot out into outer space if your not real careful. once those little flea sized pins are lost--there really lost!
on the colt kit uses the standard size pins i think. it is the sporting colts that use the large pin. i don't know if the colt kit is for you. all that upper assembly is a bit more involved than a standard kit build. an upper can be a fussy thing if you haven't built one before.
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
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