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thanks,I will stick with plastic for the rifles and stainless for the small parts
 

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Happy Camper
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Resurrecting this thread to find out about the batteries. I get all nervous thinking about starting a fire if the compounds mix and cause a "short" condition... how much "black stuff" is needed? A pinch? A spoonful? A D-cell battery complete?

The "original" home brew recipe I posted on my site indicates a bit more than that for Zinc phosphate (a "shot glass full" which is about 4 fl oz), but I'm not sure about the Manganese phosphate amount.
 

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for those of you looking for cheap parkerization supplies... don't waste money on batteries and such...

Behr No. 991 concrete etcher is $13.98/gal at most Home Depot's (30% phosphoric acid solution)
Krud Kutter brand concrete etcher is ~$15/gal at most Lowe's (40% phosphoric acid solution)

Note: 1 gallon of 30% phosphoric acid solution, makes ~ 16 gallons of parkerization solution) This is cheaper than using Naval Jelly...

manganese dioxide powder is $4/lb
black iron oxide powder is $6/lb


if you want to do Zinc Phosphate (substitute zinc oxide power for the manganese powder)

zinc oxide powder is $4/lb

all 3 dry items can be had at:

The Ceramic Shop
3245 Amber St. 1st Fl.
Philadelphia, PA 19134
store phone 215-427-9665
www.theceramicshop.com

distilled water can be had at any grocery store.
 

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gunco irregular
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slyguy2000 said:
for those of you looking for cheap parkerization supplies... don't waste money on batteries and such...

Behr No. 991 concrete etcher is $13.98/gal at most Home Depot's (30% phosphoric acid solution)
Krud Kutter brand concrete etcher is ~$15/gal at most Lowe's (40% phosphoric acid solution)

Note: 1 gallon of 30% phosphoric acid solution, makes ~ 16 gallons of parkerization solution) This is cheaper than using Naval Jelly...

manganese dioxide powder is $4/lb
black iron oxide powder is $6/lb

if you want to do Zinc Phosphate (substitute zinc oxide power for the manganese powder)

zinc oxide powder is $4/lb

all 3 dry items can be had at:

The Ceramic Shop
3245 Amber St. 1st Fl.
Philadelphia, PA 19134
store phone 215-427-9665
www.theceramicshop.com

distilled water can be had at any grocery store.
What is the BLACK IRON OXIDE POWDER for? Does it replace the steel wool, and if so how much of it do you use?
 

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Where's my lathe?
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umm, back to the battery. I got a million of 'em, all dead and waiting. $$ per pound? How about free and in a bucket just waiting for the juice. Post the amount of battery guts please.
 

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Unclear Engineer
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Going by memory. You just keep adding battery guts until they dont dissolve any more. You cant put too many in. The excess will just settle out.

The guts are made of carbon powder, manganese dioxide powder, zinc graduals, cloth like divider and alkali. I rinse the guts with water first to get rid of most of the alkali (otherwise it will neutralize the phos acid). Then add the guts (minus the cloth) to the phos acid. The carbon powder wont dissolve, so let it settle out. The zinc and MO will dissolve. I dont remember how many it took. It has been a while.
 

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moleman said:
What is the BLACK IRON OXIDE POWDER for? Does it replace the steel wool, and if so how much of it do you use?
from what works for me and others, is one cup (4oz of 30% phosphoric acid solution) and 3 table spoons of Manganese Dioxide and 3 table spoons of black iron oxide, with 1 gallon of distilled water.

Yes, the black iron oxide is in leu of steel wool or black iron wire.

For making Zinc Phoaphate bath, substitute 1 cup of Zinc Oxide powder, for the Manganese Oxide powder.
 

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ashhoe said:
umm, back to the battery. I got a million of 'em, all dead and waiting. $$ per pound? How about free and in a bucket just waiting for the juice. Post the amount of battery guts please.

hey, I have no problem with that, if you have'em use them. But if you don't the pure powder is chaper than buying batteries just to do a park job. Especially if you are parkerizing whole rifles and not just small parts.

~$20-25 will get you enough supplies to make up to 16 gallons of parker solution, vs. spending ~$60/ gallon + hazmat & shipping... from some retailers.
 

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Myself and a buddy have both tried the manganese park solution using bought powder and batteries and neither of us had any luck.

I have had great luck with zinc park using pennies with the copper ground off. I do it a little different I think, I put 8 pennies in about 18-20 oz of acid and let them disolve completely. I put that in my park tank which is a six gallon tank, heat it up and add a steel wool pad I've washed with acetone. The parts come out a nice dark charcoal color. After I let one 1919 sit once it got rust spots forming slightly on the park and I figured I mix up a quick solution of muriatic acid and water to try to wash the rust of and it did, but is also left the park a real nice WW2 gray finish. That wasn't what I wanted so I resandblasted and reparked it this time I quickly hit it with WD40 after the rinse.
 

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acmech said:
Myself and a buddy have both tried the manganese park solution using bought powder and batteries and neither of us had any luck.

I have had great luck with zinc park using pennies with the copper ground off. I do it a little different I think, I put 8 pennies in about 18-20 oz of acid and let them disolve completely. I put that in my park tank which is a six gallon tank, heat it up and add a steel wool pad I've washed with acetone. The parts come out a nice dark charcoal color. After I let one 1919 sit once it got rust spots forming slightly on the park and I figured I mix up a quick solution of muriatic acid and water to try to wash the rust of and it did, but is also left the park a real nice WW2 gray finish. That wasn't what I wanted so I resandblasted and reparked it this time I quickly hit it with WD40 after the rinse.
from what I understand is that the Manganese Park needs to be a consistent temerature, if you dunk a really large piece of cold steel into the tank it dramatically drops the temperature of the solution to below boil for a few mins which affects the proper forming of the manganese phosphate crystals onto the steel, preheating large pieces I think is the key to keeping the temperature steady. (results may vary)
 

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slyguy2000 said:
from what works for me and others, is one cup (8oz of 30% phosphoric acid solution) and 1 cup of Manganese Dioxide and 1 cup of black iron oxide, with 1 gallon of distilled water.

Yes, the black iron oxide is in leu of steel wool or black iron wire.

For making Zinc Phoaphate bath, substitute 1 cup of Zinc Oxide powder, for the Manganese Oxide powder.
Thanks!
 

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The batteries are alot of work. It is hard to get it to to a fine powder. I did not find a good way to grind it up.

The park solution or hot liquid will not break up the clumps.
 

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REVISED (pics of actual AK Pistol Front)

okay here is my mix that worked perfectly! (UPDATED!!!!)
Safty First!!! Make sure you are wearing neoprene gloves and proper face/eye protection from splashing, whenever handling the acid. Also recomend wearing a respirator when dealing with the powdered chemicals.

I started off with:
4-6oz of 30-40% Phosphoric acid ("Behr #991 Concrete Etch" or "Klean Stip - Phosphoric Etch & Prep")
3 table spoons of Manganese Dioxide powder
a pack of '000' fine steel wool
1 gallon of Distilled Water

(pre mix the manganese and the acid into a glass jar and let sit for about 2 hours for the manganese powder to disolve as much as possible, 2 hours worked fine for me.) You can stir with a stainless steel spoon, or plastic spoon, to help keep the powder from setteling at the bottom of the jar.

Pour 1 gallon of distilled water into a stainless steel pot (pyrex or ceramic coated steel pot will work too)

add your acid/manganese solution to the water very slowly to try to keep splashing to a minimum.

REMBER ALWAYS ADD ACID TO WATER, NEVER WATER TO ACID!!!

Bring the blackish/brown solution to a low boil... when the solution starts to slow boil, slowly float a biscuit of steel wool (after soaking in and wringing it out in acetone, to remove the oil) and wait for it to disolve (4oz of 40% will eat about 1 biscut, 6oz will eat about 1.5, etc), keep adding pulled pieces until they stop disolving. Then let sit at a slow boil for 20 or more minutes. then you can turn off the heat and let the sediment settle, and you should skim out any uneaten steel wool.

once you liquid is cooled DO NOT STIR or AGITATE the LIQUID!!! You want only the greenish liquid, and to seperate the sediment from the greenish liquid. Carefully siphon the clear greenish liquid into another stainless steel pot (or pyrex etc...) or bottle and this will be your parkerization liquid. When ready to use the liquid pour it into your tank, make a note of where the liquid level is in the pot and bring to a low boil (~185F-200F) and when the soultion reaches that temp, you can add your items to be coated. As the liquid reduces from evaporation, slowly add more distilled water to bring the liquid to the level you noted, but no so quickly that it drops the temperature below 185F.

Now, you add your cleaned/preped/oil free (I used acetone) parts to the hot liquid, make sure they are completely submerged in the solutiuon (recomend suspending small parts in a stainless steel basket or suspended from a stainless steel wire), and they will fizz and give off CO2 gas, after about 10-20 minutes, your parts will stop fizzing (depending on the hardness of the steel it may take more or less time), at this point they are done.

You can remove them from the parkerization bath and rinse them off with hot water, and lightly rub off any buildup that might occur with a nylon brush. using an air compressor, blow dry your parts completely and/or bake out any remaining water. immediatly coat your items with any oil of your choice, (I have found that WD40 will evaportate quickly), I used 10W30 motor oil or cutting oil.

Let your items sit heavly coated with oil for about an hour, then you can wipe down and remove the heavy oil and coat with CLP.

My test pieces came out a beautiful dark charcoal grey/black in color and the finish was very uniform, deep and hard.

As you can see any brazeing will not take the finish, this pistol front was brazed at the front site, and where the gas tube was cut and reattached. Item was lightly sandblasted, and scrubbed with break cleaner, and then soaked for 20 mins in acetone, then dunked into the tank for about 15-20 mins till the light fizzing stopped. (harder and heavier piceces will require more time) Now, this unit will get scrubbed one more time to remove the oil, and will get a GunKote or DuraCoat finish to complet it.

FYI- Before dunking this in the tank, I did also plug the Breach, Muzzle, and Gas block opening, with corks to keep the solution from entering the barrel and possibly fouling the chamber and rifiling.





If doing larger items, proportionaly increase the amount of chemicles, or do several batches until you achieve the amount of solution you need.

(Results may vary)
 

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sumbitch
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i parked a receiver stub tonight and it turned out pretty good i used the magnesium out of a few batterys extra fine steel wool and behr concrete etcher.bought a lil electric single eye burner at the dollar store for $8 and a candy thermometer $4.the most expensive thing was the etcher.it was $15 a gallon but a gallon will go a long way.im going to get me some pvc tubes and cap them off and do 2 of my aks in them.im going to order the magnesium for them tho this was just my little science experiment.it worked now im gonna park everything i got.just one question if i use the iron oxide powder insted of the magnesium will it come out black insted of grey?the stub cam out a really dark grey but i want black.
 

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Try dipping the steel in a dilute hydrochloric acid bath for a bit before dropping it in the park solution. I've used the Brownell's Pre park blackener with zinc park and it turned the stuff black. It was just some hydrochloric acid mixed with water and kept in a plastic garbage can. I think you can download the instructions off Brownell's website.
 

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For most purposes, including parkerizing, muriatic acid==hydrochloric acid. Muriatic is simply a slightly impure hydrochloric, it often has a little sulfuric acid in it.

Muriatic acid is another type of concrete etcher and can be had at various hardware stores.
 

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sumbitch
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check this out look at the ingrediants of the behr concrete etcher
2-Butoxyethanol
Phosphoric acid
we all know what the phosfuric acid is but heres what the other ingrediant is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-Butoxyethanol

so the etcher is . 5% 2-Butoxyethanol which is just a solvent and im pretty sure the rest is the acid and water.
and to think i was gonna order some Phosphoric acid off the net and probly pay alot.also i think that 5% solvent prolly turns in to steam and vaporizes before the water ever gets hot enough for the parts.kinda like moonshine!

heres the list of products with Phosphoric acid
http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=chem&id=93
 

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charger0122 said:
i parked a receiver stub tonight and it turned out pretty good i used the magnesium out of a few batterys extra fine steel wool and behr concrete etcher.bought a lil electric single eye burner at the dollar store for $8 and a candy thermometer $4.the most expensive thing was the etcher.it was $15 a gallon but a gallon will go a long way.im going to get me some pvc tubes and cap them off and do 2 of my aks in them.im going to order the magnesium for them tho this was just my little science experiment.it worked now im gonna park everything i got.just one question if i use the iron oxide powder insted of the magnesium will it come out black insted of grey?the stub cam out a really dark grey but i want black.
I revised my recipe a little bit, I'm no longer using the black iron oxide power, because it's hard to tell when the solution stops being caustic to steel and ready for finishing... with the steel wool, you can tell, when it stops eating the steel wool...

as far as the color, mine comes out a really really super dark grey, almost a black (but not quite jet black), and I think it has to do with the purity of the manganese. I have used Behr#991 and Klean Strip - Phosphoric Etch & Prep, and they both come out the same color on the finish. The Klean Stip seems to be just acid and water, the Behr has the solvent that does kind of stink when boiling it, but for me the results were the same.
 
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