[Cammer]

I have a Vulcan receiver that is in need of some ejector hardening. Is there a way to harden this area of the receiver? The ejector is getting kinda beat up after only 100 rounds, it's starting to mushroom and I don't want to end up adding weld bead to it and having to remachine it. I'd rather just fix it before it gets too bad.

Any help would be appreciated.

You can see a pic here -

 

[sks_hunter]

you could try flame hardening, or trying to find somebody who actually does hard facing. hard facing is done with a torch, which has a little bottle of grayish colored powder on top of the torch set. the metal is heated red-hot, then the powder is "injected" into the flame, adhering to the surface metal. the powder, I believe, is actually a tungsten-carbide type of surfacing, and is really quite tough. I used to work in a sawmill, and we used to use this stuff on steel where logs would rub, and it proved extremely rugged.Just ideas... hope we can come up with something, as I am sure that somebody else here has had this problem and conquered it...:smile:

 

[Kevin_M4]

that sux, I think I would go to the source. Try calling JoeKen and see if they offer any solutions, surely they would have some advice?

 

[sks_hunter]

absolutely, kevin... that's exactly where I would start...don't know why I didn't say that...???

 

[scubadvr]

Heat treating is not difficult but it is much more difficult than calling the seller to ask what options he would offer.

Heat treating color reference

 

[hcpookie]

That's the the other "standard" problem with the Hesse/Vulcan receivers, the ejector isn't hardened.

Here are the options I collected from my gunsnet post many weeks ago:

- Use a torch to harden the ejector wear area & delay the wear
- Grind down, weld, then dremel a new ejector wear area
- Use that liquid "kasenit" hardener from Brownell's to harden the wear area... this is a case (surface) hardening compound.

People have used all three methods, but the easiest for those like me w/o a welder handy is to use a torch to harden the ejector.

MAPP is probably best...
1. heat the ejector until it loses magnetism (should be orange-red)
2. plunge it into motor oil.
3. Put out oil fire.
4. Enjoy.

If you weld it, get someone with a TIG or MIG to weld an oversized bead onto the ejector and then dremel it down to the correct size/shape. The heat from this will anneal the steel (or normalize, never can remember which) - make it more brittle - so that in itself should be enough heat treatment. Again, others posted this method has worked for them.

hth,
- Jerry

 

[hcpookie]

you could try flame hardening, or trying to find somebody who actually does hard facing. hard facing is done with a torch, which has a little bottle of grayish colored powder on top of the torch set. the metal is heated red-hot, then the powder is "injected" into the flame, adhering to the surface metal. the powder, I believe, is actually a tungsten-carbide type of surfacing, and is really quite tough. I used to work in a sawmill, and we used to use this stuff on steel where logs would rub, and it proved extremely rugged.Just ideas... hope we can come up with something, as I am sure that somebody else here has had this problem and conquered it...:smile:

Sounds exactly like that Kasenit stuff from Brownell's.

 

[justashooter]

Sounds exactly like that Kasenit stuff from Brownell's.

1600* (bright red, not orange, yet) to "normalise" steel. immediately quench in running water (kitchen sink) or oil. polish bright with sandpaper, and reheat up to a dark blue. air cool.
this is called "quench and temper", and works with most steels like 4140 that joeken receivers are made from.

 

[Cammer]

1600* (bright red, not orange, yet) to "normalise" steel. immediately quench in running water (kitchen sink) or oil. polish bright with sandpaper, and reheat up to a dark blue. air cool.
this is called "quench and temper", and works with most steels like 4140 that joeken receivers are made from.

Thanks for the good info justashooter! That's what I've been looking for. I actually went ahead and did the first half of the process, sort've. What I did was heat it up to a reddish orange color then, since I don't have either a pan large enough nor do I have enough oil, I just poured some 10w40 over the ejector. After it cooled it had a bluish tint to the steel. It seemed a little harder although I could still bite it with a file. Is it okay to leave it like that or is it important to follow through with your instructions exactly?

Thanks again for the help!

 

[1 Patriot-of-many]

That's the the other "standard" problem with the Hesse/Vulcan receivers, the ejector isn't hardened.

Here are the options I collected from my gunsnet post many weeks ago:

- Use a torch to harden the ejector wear area & delay the wear
- Grind down, weld, then dremel a new ejector wear area
- Use that liquid "kasenit" hardener from Brownell's to harden the wear area... this is a case (surface) hardening compound.

People have used all three methods, but the easiest for those like me w/o a welder handy is to use a torch to harden the ejector.

MAPP is probably best...
1. heat the ejector until it loses magnetism (should be orange-red)
2. plunge it into motor oil.
3. Put out oil fire.
4. Enjoy.

If you weld it, get someone with a TIG or MIG to weld an oversized bead onto the ejector and then dremel it down to the correct size/shape. The heat from this will anneal the steel (or normalize, never can remember which) - make it more brittle - so that in itself should be enough heat treatment. Again, others posted this method has worked for them.

hth,
- Jerry

3. LOL Love that one!!!!

 

[45leadslinger]

Here is what I found from an old thread and i am sure the same goes for the rails:




MAPP should be hot enough:
"The neutral oxy-MAPP Gas flame produces 2405 BTUs/cf with a 5301? F (2927? C) flame temperature."


Here's what I would do to your ready-to-assemble fully drilled receiver:

1. TEMPILAQ the holes to 1600 degrees.
2. Quench in sand and allow to cool.
(metal now annealed)

3. TEMPILAQ the holes to 750 degrees.
4. Quench in oil (motor oil)... this may start an oil fire, so be prepared w/sand, lid on container, etc.
(metal now tempered)

5. (Optional) - KASENIT the rest of the receiver shell.

That should be it. You'll probably have to do the holes one by one.

EDIT: My welder friend verified my steps are correct. Those temperatures & reference info are from some metal working reference documentation.

EDIT:
quote from my friend
"ok.. i got it figured out. the stuff you have is not heat treated, just stress relieved. So your next step is heat treat to 1600 with an oil quench. Then after you heat treat, a 750 heat and air cool for tempering (to decrease brittleness)"

Originally it was posted for 800-900 degrees but he says 750 is better. He says an oven, set to 500 degrees, is not sufficient... so 750 is the magic number he recommends, based on his reference sites about metal working.

Originally posted by Jerry (hcpookie)

 

[Cammer]

Thanks Jerry. This is really great info! Maybe something like this could be compiled and made into a sticky for the home builder forum?

 

[45leadslinger]

Thanks Jerry. This is really great info! Maybe something like this could be compiled and made into a sticky for the home builder forum?

My name is Paul.

I left Jerry on there when I cut and pasted the article. sorry about the mix up.

glad the post was a help.

 

[7.62x39]

Thanks Jerry. This is really great info! Maybe something like this could be compiled and made into a sticky for the home builder forum?

A copy of Pauls post has been added to the library.

 

[45leadslinger]

A copy of Pauls post has been added to the library.

i think Justashooter's post should replace mine in library. I guess i will try his technique as it seems to be the best for now!


Here's why:


now i am really confused. I called brownells to ask about the templaQ offerings only have 700 and 1500 degrees.

This dosent seem to quite cut it. The tech guy recommended using an industrial oven made for that process.

I am a home builder and don't have access to that equiptment.
C4550 recommended using a magnet for the first 1600 degree heat. The tech guy agreed that metal looses it magnet properties at that temp. but what about the 750?

help i want to finish this AMD65 and paint.

 

[hcpookie]

I called brownells to ask about the templaQ offerings only have 700 and 1500 degrees.

Talked w/ my welder friend. HE SAYS that you need welder's heat crayons... same thing.

BTW its TEMPILAQ and that's a brand-name for temperature indicating solution.

Supposedly these "heat crayons" can be found in welding supply shops. I'm going to tag along next time he goes there to see what they have.

Search the web for Tempilaq & you'll get plenty of hits. Manufacturer website info:

http://www.tempil.com/Tempilstik.htm

http://www.tempil.com/Tempilabel.htm

http://www.tempil.com/TempilaqG.htm

TL0750 - 750?F/399?C
TL1600 - 1600?F/871?C


I found it for sale here: http://www.mscdirect.com

60797842 =
Temperature Rating (?F): 750
2 oz.
4540 View Product in Catalog
$10.89

60798568 =
2 oz.
4540 View Product in Catalog
$10.89


hth,
- Jerry

 

[45leadslinger]

:notworthy


Hcpookie,

You Da Man.

thanks.

Paul

 

[hcpookie]

No prob. When I get bored waiting on hold w/ customers I find quite a bit of time to surf for answers!