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IIRC, that will be just shy (25 1/2" ??) of 26" Over All Length and would be illegal.

A rifle has to have a barrel atleast 16" and be 26" OAL.

Now,the good news,POST AWB why not make a AK pistol with a virgin receiver and that rear trunion. You could have a nice short ,say 8",barrel, which would be more convienent.

A AMD-65 parts kit minus the rear stock trunion using the above trunion would be neat (and legal) as long as you didn't install the forward pistol grip on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Overall length.

Triangle 66 said:
IIRC, that will be just shy (25 1/2" ??) of 26" Over All Length and would be illegal.

A rifle has to have a barrel atleast 16" and be 26" OAL.

How about a barrel extension? Muzzle brake? Would that help?
 

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after the ban expires (fingers crossed), I plan on building a Krinkov pistol. What will be sweet, is that I will not have to have a magazine or drum permanently welded onto the gun. US parts will still be required though, because that was part of the import ban of 89'
 

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tricky question. i see trunnion blocks in use, and a muzzle attachment permanently attached (silv soldered) would make the overall length over 26.

the sticking point is the definition of "a rifle". gca 1968 says
"...a weapon...intended to be fired from the shoulder..."
44-921-7

don't see any other guidance to allow the use of a trunnion block.

of course, this doesn't mean i haven't bent a peice of 1.25 X .120 flat bar into a snakecharmer butt that plugs into the rear of a certain romanian i have and brings the length question to resolution at the same time..
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
hmmm

justashooter said:
tricky question. i see trunnion blocks in use, and a muzzle attachment permanently attached (silv soldered) would make the overall length over 26.

the sticking point is the definition of "a rifle". gca 1968 says
"...a weapon...intended to be fired from the shoulder..."
44-921-7

don't see any other guidance to allow the use of a trunnion block.

of course, this doesn't mean i haven't bent a peice of 1.25 X .120 flat bar into a snakecharmer butt that plugs into the rear of a certain romanian i have and brings the length question to resolution at the same time..
I guess another part of the question would be if the muzzle brake when welded is still considered to be another part or part of the barrel? So, is it a pistol, rifle, or other and what laws apply?
 

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ChrisAKG said:
I guess another part of the question would be if the muzzle brake when welded is still considered to be another part or part of the barrel? So, is it a pistol, rifle, or other and what laws apply?
I think the catch is that it has to be a virgin receiver, because once it's a rifle it's always a rifle, and you end up inadvertently building a short barreled rifle if you buy a rifle receiver and build it into a pistol. If you make your own receiver and build it into a handgun there is no issue. The problem with getting 100% finished receivers is that they are normally sold as rifle receivers and "once it's a rifle it's always a rifle." However, if you purchase a receiver that was built and sold for the purposes of building a pistol it should be no problem.

Currently the issue with building an AK pistol is the 50 oz. weight limit. If September passes by without a renewal then there won't be such an issue and you can build one with or without a flash hider regardless if it is permanently attached. Just don't ever put a buttstock on it because then, once again, you have built a short barreled rifle. Don't you just love these intelligent, well-crafted gun laws?

But wait! There's more!

There is another catch to this. An AK type pistol really lends itself to a vertical foregrip. The problem is that if you attach a vertical foregrip ahead of the magazine then it becomes an AOW which is an NFA weapon. Not an expensive one because of the $5 tax stamp, but still a pain to get transferred nonetheless.

All of the above is not to be taken as gospel. If I were you I would check other sources for the accuracy of the information. It is based on my own hearsay and question asking over the years and I would want someone to verify the info before acting on it.

If I have mispoken and given incorrect information I would hope that someone corrects me on this thread.

I hope this helps. Personally I plan on making an AK pistol variant after September. I might even go for the AOW. :naughty:
 

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aow costs 200$ to manufacture, and 5$ to transfer. don't do it. just wrap that sucker in heat tape, cut off the barrel in front of the gas block, and go to town. no foreign parts required in building a pistol. they are not covered by the 89 ban. read it yourself.

grade 3 amd 65 at 79$, tapco flat at 15$, plus 120 days = 30 cal ak pistul for 94$ each. at that price, i'm building 10.
 

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justashooter said:
aow costs 200$ to manufacture, and 5$ to transfer. don't do it. just wrap that sucker in heat tape, cut off the barrel in front of the gas block, and go to town. no foreign parts required in building a pistol. they are not covered by the 89 ban. read it yourself.

grade 3 amd 65 at 79$, tapco flat at 15$, plus 120 days = 30 cal ak pistul for 94$ each. at that price, i'm building 10.
Probably not a bad idea except that I have yet to find a link that can show me how to reliably, accurately, and consistently bend those flats. Well that plus the fact that you really can't build a pistol over the 50 oz limit until after September 14th.

If you can tell me of a good way to bend a flat please do. I finally broke down and ordered a 12 ton press from HF yesterday. $99 + $5.95 handling fee delivered isn't a bad price I figure. Now at least I'll be able to do my own rivets.
 

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A whole new world opens up once you have that press........
 

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posted details of my flat forming aps in january on the fal files. sold a few sets just for fun. involves making a forming block with a bottom plate that clamps on with a few bolts, and using a dolly block, a vise and a hammer to turn the corners. i can bend one in spec in about 15 minutes. took the gold plated pimp gun to a shoot few weeks ago. worked fine when dripping lube. a little sluggish when bone dry. modified the form since bending this prototype. i am prolly gonna strip this one for use as an ak pistol on a new flat when the ban expires.

even if you buy a vulcan for 40$ plus 20$ costs, an amd pistol is still under $150. think about it.
 

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But, we wouldn't be able to have the front PG right? How do I get around the $200 manufacturing fee....without "building" it? Have a virgin receiver sent in and registered as a "pistol" recevier and some king of certification from the manufacturer, add the rest of the parts and then transfer it for $5 AOW. Then we get best of both worlds. 2 PG's and only $5. Will this work? Here's a letter that helps out a little on the receiver.



October 1, 1992


Firearms Technical Branch
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
650 Mass. Ave., NW
Washington, DC 20226

Dear Sirs:

The Greensboro, NC BATF Compliance Office suggested that I write to
you for information on the following point.

I am interested on whether it is possible to have a commercially
manufactured rifle receiver changed to be legally considered to be a handgun
receiver, and how this can be done. The Compliance Office said that this
might be possible via a "Letter of Determination", but advised me to write
to you about the criteria and procedures.

For example, if a person has a rifle receiver and wishes to have it
built into a rifle-caliber handgun suitable for steel silhouette target
shooting, comparable to the bolt action Remington XP-100 handgun. I
understand that the serial number of this receiver is recorded as being for a
rifle. Could this person have this receiver's serial number considered to be
a handgun receiver? If so, what procedures and paperwork would be
necessary.

Sincerely,

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Oct 29 1992
Dear Mr. XXXXX:

This refers to your letter of October 1, 1992, in which you inquire
about the legality of manufacturing a handgun which utilizes a rifle
type receiver.

26 U.S.C. Chapter 53 # 5845(a)(4), the National Firearms Act (NFA),
defines the term "firearm" to include a weapon made from a rifle if
such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches
or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.

Utilizing the receiver of an existing rifle for the purposes of
manufacturing a handgun would constitute the making of a firearm as
defined above. Individuals desiring to make such a firearm must first
submit an ATF Form 1, Application To Make And Register a Firearm and
pay the applicable $200 making tax.

If an individual were to obtain a rifle type receiver that had not
previously been utilized in the assembly of a rifle, a handgun could be
made and not be subject to the provisions of the NFA. Verification
must be obtained from the manufacturer of the receiver to establish
its authenticity.

We trust the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If we may
be of any further assistance, please contact us.

Sincerely your,
(signed)
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
 

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justashooter said:
aow costs 200$ to manufacture, and 5$ to transfer. don't do it. just wrap that sucker in heat tape, cut off the barrel in front of the gas block, and go to town. no foreign parts required in building a pistol. they are not covered by the 89 ban. read it yourself.

grade 3 amd 65 at 79$, tapco flat at 15$, plus 120 days = 30 cal ak pistul for 94$ each. at that price, i'm building 10.
Is there a sale on Tapco flats? I keep seeing them on here for $15.00. I paid $19.99 for all of mine. Do you have to have a catalog code or something?
 

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justashooter said:
aow costs 200$ to manufacture, and 5$ to transfer. don't do it. just wrap that sucker in heat tape, cut off the barrel in front of the gas block, and go to town. no foreign parts required in building a pistol. they are not covered by the 89 ban. read it yourself.

grade 3 amd 65 at 79$, tapco flat at 15$, plus 120 days = 30 cal ak pistul for 94$ each. at that price, i'm building 10.

Remember!


:useless:


Jack
 

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youth,
with aow somebody has to pay the 200$ "making" fee on a form 1 to start the chain. it's 5$ a change of ownership from there.

as for the pix, wait till september 15, and i'll show ya a bevy of them.
 

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okay , it's now the 19th and we ain't seeing no bevy of pics.... sorry just had to add that in .... but the ak pistol build did perk my interest since I'm sitting here waiting on my amd-65 kits to be delivered and they have such a nice short barrel for this type of build
 
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