[smartbomb]

i have run this question else where and thought i would ask here as well. there is just so much crap to learn that i think i am loosing my mind.


so most gas op 9mm/x25 ak builds require lightening the carrier. from what i have seen, the carrier looks like swiss cheese. my feeble brain says to do something completely different. my thought was to emulate the sks. an sks has a separate piston and bolt, with the piston floating in the tube. the bolt gets kicked by the piston as the gas acts on it. i'm thinking, the ak carrier gets cut somewhere forward of the bolt (makes it lighter). the bolt gets its push from an sks type gas piston. the carrier itself can ride rearward on its rails and a spring/guide rod similar to an rpk. am i nuts or is this plausible

 

[kernelkrink]

Issues of your mental health aside, yes it sounds plausible. You could cut the entire front off the carrier, essentially flat faced like the FAL. Install a bushing in the gastube and set it up with a return spring.

 

[smartbomb]

yep exactly how my warped mind pictured it!!!

damn damn damn!!!!

 

[gwailo]

Hey bud,
Your putting way too much thought into this. The EOD carrier weight is almost perfect for a standard AK 47 recoil assembly on a full sized receivered AK. I based my carrier off of it, but with a few changes so it would work with the 9mm round and I also timed it not to fire out of battery. You need to make a stop plate on the recoil assembly or use a buffer to keep the carrier from jumping the rails though. Look at the Vityaz recoil assembly in this pic.
P.S. No I don't have all measurements at this time as per the Saiga 12 question.

 

[smartbomb]

agreed as it pertains to a blowback setup. i am referring to a gas operated system. the eod is a great solution, but i was trying to work within the limits of what i have on hand.

and i will have to say thats one hot rifle.

 

[gwailo]

Oh, ok.
Yes I like that rifle myself. Can't wait to finish mine.

 

[smartbomb]

Be sure to post some details. I am still on the fence between blowback and gas op.

 

[2ndAmendican]

That Vityaz is freaking awesome. Somewhere down my list of builds I want to do, is a clone of that. I have a similar type weapon with my gas op x25 build, and I might do a visual conversion on it, and SBR it. It looks too good with a folder not to SBR it.

Scott, if you start building this gas op 9mm as you proposed, please document it well with pics, as this sounds very interesting. BTW, did you mean PKM, as the RPK is the same as a standard AK?

 

[gwailo]

That Vityaz is freaking awesome. Somewhere down my list of builds I want to do, is a clone of that. I have a similar type weapon with my gas op x25 build, and I might do a visual conversion on it, and SBR it. It looks too good with a folder not to SBR it.

Scott, if you start building this gas op 9mm as you proposed, please document it well with pics, as this sounds very interesting. BTW, did you mean PKM, as the RPK is the same as a standard AK?

Any new info on them bolts you were going to have made? I'm working on a shorter receiver. The Vityaz is 11/16 shorter than a standard receiver.

 

[smartbomb]

CHRIS

I HAVE AN RPK BCG/TRUNNION AND SPRING. THE SPRING I SENT YOU IS TYPICAL OF WHAT I NORMALLY SEE, A SPRING WITH 2 U SHAPED WIRES INSIDE. HOWEVER, THE RPK SPRING I HAVE HAS A SOLID ROD RUNNING HALF THE LENGTH. I LOOKS AS IF THE ROD FITS JUST AFT OF THE CARRIER WHEN ASSEMBLED.

https://www.apexgunparts.com/popup_image.php/pID/1894

 

[2ndAmendican]

Oh ok, I understand now. I was confused, sorry.

Gwailo, sorry for all the delays, but I'm still waiting on my machine shop. The foreman thinks it's going to come out too expensive with the shop doing it, so he is putting together numbers for several different scenarios. First is:

2, 5, and 10 pieces with him doing it on his own spare time.

Second:

10, 20 and 30 with "the company" doing it.

He is unfortunately very busy with lots of work for Michelin Tire at the moment, and this quote keeps getting delayed. As soon as I get word, I'll put up a thread specifically for it.

Scott, sorry to hijack your thread.

 

[smartbomb]

chris, no worries. all heading in the same direction.

 

[gwailo]

Oh ok, I understand now. I was confused, sorry.

Gwailo, sorry for all the delays, but I'm still waiting on my machine shop. The foreman thinks it's going to come out too expensive with the shop doing it, so he is putting together numbers for several different scenarios. First is:

2, 5, and 10 pieces with him doing it on his own spare time.

Second:

10, 20 and 30 with "the company" doing it.

He is unfortunately very busy with lots of work for Michelin Tire at the moment, and this quote keeps getting delayed. As soon as I get word, I'll put up a thread specifically for it.

Scott, sorry to hijack your thread.

I need a carrier like the EOD one, but with a squared back like in the Vityaz carrier in the pic I posted.
1. The overall body length needs to 11/16 shorter
2. The recoil spring tube needs to be 11/16 deeper
3. I don't want the EOD bolt stop cut in the top left corner also.
If your guy can do this great, but if not just let me know. I have another guy who will do it for around $150

 

[smartbomb]

I CAN PONY UP FOR A GROUP BUY

 

[Coils]

Has anyone built a gas-op 9mm yet? I've only seen blow back in this caliber

 

[moleman]

A gas operated 9mm is possible in an ar15 http://www.gunco.net/forums/f255/gas-operated-wonder-9-a-58984/ and I believe it would be an easier build in an ak type gun since you could have a much larger gas port closer to the piston. With the ar15 you are limited to gas port size by the inside diameter of the gas tube. You can put a 1/4" port on the barrel, but the id of the gas tube is around .118" so anything over that isn't really doing anything. On the ak, you can drill out the gas passage in the gas block larger, plus the gas is acting directly on the piston verses going up a gas block, making a 90 degree turn, down a tube, making another turn into an expansion chamber. I thought someone had a switchbarrel 762x25 and 9mm that were gas op on the ak receiver? Cant remember offhand who it was, so here's some 9mm DI guns

 

[Coils]

Yeah I remebered your AR build, I just never seen an AK build yet.
The switch barrel your thinking of is most likely azhonkey's. I think it's blow back?

 

[2ndAmendican]

Yeah I remebered your AR build, I just never seen an AK build yet.
The switch barrel your thinking of is most likely azhonkey's. I think it's blow back?

Yeah, I think Azhonkey's switch barrel was blowback. Damn nice set-up.

Biggest issue I can think of with a gas op AK, is getting the bolt/carrier light enough, and I would actually try to lower the hammer pin holes just a hair to change the geometry enough to make it easier for the carrier to set the hammer.

Scott, as soon as I get pricing, and if it's going to be reasonable with a large run, then we will definitely go for a group buy. I'll post a separate thread as soon as I get the quote.

 

[smartbomb]

HEY CHRIS, I AM BITING MY NAILS IN ANTICIPATION!!!

 

[moleman]

Yeah I remebered your AR build, I just never seen an AK build yet.
The switch barrel your thinking of is most likely azhonkey's. I think it's blow back?

I finally found it and you're right Coils :notworthy I was picturing azhonkeys build. There was a 762x25 gas op build maybe 4-6 years ago though, built on an ak74 receiver. IIRC it had the black plastic stock set on it. My internet is running glacially slow when I'm running the searches in the ak built it section and I've given up looking. If someone can find that thread I think it would help out quite a bit even though there are differences in the pressures and pressure curves between the two rounds.