Gunco Forums banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK I know that buying a Century built FAL can be a crapshoot but this gun looked real good. I now find that the gas adj ring won?t turn lower than about 4 ? and I can?t see how the damn thing is attached, it doesn?t seem to have that C shaped spring like it should. Also the piston must have been too long so it was cut down to make it fit, it still has the rough cut marks so I?ll have to clean them up so it won?t markup the bolt carrier. The gas plug is longer than others I?ve seen so I?d guess that?s why the piston was cut down, I think this may be an Israeli gas plug or something.
Now the biggest problem is the fact that it won?t fire, it makes a dimple in the primer but no happiness. I removed the pin (Two piece) and it looks fine so I measured how far it protrudes when I compress the spring and I get .050 of pin showing. I need to know if that is correct or is it short? Anyone out there that can pull their bolt and check this for me I?d appreciate it very much, or if you have any other ideas that may help please feel free to put your two cents in. Oh yah if you do pull the firing pin, how long is it? My pin is 3.305 lg. not including the rear piece.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,413 Posts
Where is Scubadvr when you need him? Damn, that thing doesn't sound too good. I've been thinking of getting one of those myself as well since kits have dried up.

I hope it turns out well for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for wishing me well Sang, After posting I had a thought, what if the head spacing is off? If it?s not tight enough it may allow the round to move forward as the firing pin hits. I called my local gun guy and he doesn?t have .308 gauges, so I guess I?ll take a fired case, put a couple layers of tape on the back end and see if it still will close. If it does I?ll really have to wonder about the head spacing on this bitch. What I may do is pop the Locking Shoulder out and measure it and then order the next size bigger, I?ll need it later anyway as the new receiver stretches with use. I still hope someone will measure how far the firing pin extends from the bolt face on his or her gun so I?ll know if I?m in spec.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
413 Posts
Dang. I don't have anything to measure with here at my house but I would say that you have a whole bevvy of problems going on. You really need to get a no go guage thrown into that bad boy just to be safe. The tape deal is a hit or miss. I just wouldn't do it. If someone here (that I know) can vouch for you then I will send you my go and no-go as well as my pin guages if you need them also. I also have some locking shoulders if you need them......... not sure what size they are but they were too big for my builds.

As far as the firing pin is concerned I think I would start by ordering a new spring kit from Falcon Arms (I think that's the name of them). It might just be that the hammer spring is too short or not quite strong enough to strike the firing pin with enough force. Either way it's a good idea to replace the crappy century springs. I would just go ahead and get a new piston and gas plug while you're at it. If you count your US parts and you have more than you need I can send you an Imbel piston. No dice on the plug but you should be able to find one pretty cheap.

Let me know if I can help

[email protected]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the feedback guys, After stripping the bolt I tried using a fired round from my Saiga to gauge the headspace but it won?t chamber the case, so I used a live round and found it had a nice snap as it locked up. Then I added a.003 layer of tape and the bolt wouldn?t close the last 3/8-inch, so I think the headspace is most likely fine. The locking shoulder is new also, so they must have done a decent job of headspacing the gun. The idea of a new hammer spring is a good one because it does seem a little weak to me. I wish I?d thought of this last week, I just bought new springs for my M1-Garand from Wolff and could have saved on the shipping. The piston doesn?t worry me because I?ll order a new Tapco SS piston shortly, it?s the gas adj. that bothers me some, I?ll have to knock the little pin out and dismantle the gas tube and see if I can get it to work. I wonder if it?s out of round? At this point it?s an expensive wall hanger, looks great but isn?t worth a shit. And of course it would be nice if Century would get back to me on this but that?s probably too much to expect. I don?t think I?d ever buy anything from Century again as long as it?s something they put together in house.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
7.62x39 said:
OG,

Where are you located?

I live about twenty miles South of Rockford Illinois and seventy or so miles West of Chicago, it?s a little town named Malta, just West of DeKalb the home of NIU. DeKalb is famous for a few things, NIU, barbed wire was invented here, and DeKalb Seed. You may have seen the flying ear of corn sign that says DeKalb on it in some farmer?s field.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,836 Posts
SangRun Hunter said:
Where is Scubadvr when you need him? Damn, that thing doesn't sound too good. I've been thinking of getting one of those myself as well since kits have dried up.

I hope it turns out well for you.

I've been away for a little while. Just purchased a M1 Carbine (Rock Ola), be messing with it.

Regarding the FAL, take the gas tube off from the receiver end. The whole tube may then be able to be removed. If not try to unsrew the adjuster all the way off. There is a little pin in the bottom portion of the gas tube (very tiny) that may have to be punched out. Also there is a spring that is bent in the shape of a squared "U" that has a small "v" bent in the bottom. Its job is to keep the adjuster from changing settings. Make sure all parts are clean and free of any burrs. Hope this helps. Jack

P.S. I also endorse getting a new spring kit Falcon Arms . Tapco has them as well.

P.S.S. Do you have a site for the M1 springs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Scubadvr, Thanks for the thread to Falcon Arms. I received a FAL tool from DSA today and used it to turn the gas ring on my FAL, it now works fine, must have had a burr or some crud. I picked up the AGI video on building the FAL at a local gun shop for $10 (used). So I now have complete info on how to tare the gun down, the video shows a C-shaped spring holding the gas ring in place; I don?t see this or a groove for it to fit into. My only real concern is getting the gun to fire. A new spring may work but I would still like to find out how far the firing pin should protrude from the bolt, like I said I?ve got .050, but it seams I?ve seen another make of gun listing .055 to .065 as a minimum and maximum for it?s pin. This gun seems to be a mix of parts from different models so the pin may not be from this bolt, I?d like to know if .050 is correct before I spend $15 for a new firing pin when a $4 spring will do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,836 Posts
You will be surprised, the FAL is a pretty indistructable weapon. I have built several on Century receivers and with a little tweeking they work fine. The video you mentioned is good, the only one better is by Mark Graham, aka Gunplumber. His site is www.arizonaresponsesystems.com. Keep me in the loop as you move forward. Jack
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I?m getting low on cash so another $60 for the videos is a bit much right now. I?ve bought the AGI video, a few mag?s, the tool, DSA butt stock, Tapco cover w/stripper feed and will have to get a hammer spring to make it work. I?m also looking for a nice handguard set. I?ve blown way too much in the last eight weeks, lets see, I?ve bought the FAL rifle, a Saiga .308 rifle, a Saiga .410 shotgun, a Nagant M-44, an M-1 Garand and the Springfield XD.40. Oh, and tomorrow night I?m picking up a hundred-year-old pump shotgun from my local gun guy. (Only $100) That?s over $2,225 in eight weeks, damn! The only other thing I need to buy is another AK receiver, but I haven?t figured out from whom yet. I?ve got to stop buying and plan on how to make money and not how to spend it. Things are going to get real tight around here so I must grit my teeth and stop looking at Shotgun News all the time.
By the way, that DSA stock is damn nice, it makes it easier to get your eye low enough to get a good sight picture, I really had to scrunch down with the original stock.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well Damn, After replacing the hammer, recoil, piston springs and the piston it self, I finely took it out and TRIED to fire off a few rounds. Two out of twenty fired, all the others just had a small dent in the primer. I?m getting real tired of this and will never buy a Century built rifle again. Would someone PLEASE pull your firing pin and measure it for me, PLEASE also measure how much your pin protrudes when it?s fully forward. I have a two piece firing pin so I really need two measurements for the pin. Picture below.
 

Attachments

·
Angry White Man
Joined
·
3,379 Posts
Looking at the pic of your firing pin I don't see anything grossly abnormal with it. I'm at work until late tonight, but will measure one of mine when I can and let you know the dimensions.

A few questions....

Will the rifle hand cycle rounds cleanly? What I'm getting at is.....

Does the bolt go completely into battery and lock up with the cartridge case firmly seated against the bolt head and the extractor claw fully gripping the cartridge rim? When cycled back is the cartridge extracted ok? Since it appears your getting a light hit on the cartridge primer, and your firing pin "looks" normal, the problem could be with your bolt/extractor/receiver.

1. Pull the bolt and check for any blockage where the firing pin slides in. Should slide in smoothly. The spring should be in good shape. If it takes some effort to push the firing pin with spring in and reinstall the firing pin retaining pin, it should be serviceable.

2. Check the extractor claw for burrs or any flaws. I've seen some with chips and gouges which would clearly affect seating of the cartridge head on the bolt.

3. With the bolt and extractor assembled and back in the carrier, slide the whole assembly forward into battery. No need for a cartridge to be chambered. Check for contact between the extractor claw and the right side of the receiver. The front right side of the receiver has a small area milled out to allow the extractor to travel fully forward and engage the cartridge rim. On my one and only FAL build using a new Century metric receiver, I found that this milled area wasn't deep enough. It therefore prevented the bolt and extractor from going fully forward and functioning properly. I solved the problem by using a dremel tool and grinding out the milled area enough to prevent contact between the extractor and the receiver.

4. One additional thought would be to inspect the hammer/trigger/sear parts to ensure they're all moving freely with nothing dragging. In other words nothing keeping the hammer from flying fully forward with force.

I'll ponder this a bit more. Let me know what you find. I'm no expert, but I am working on FAL build number 10 with 4 more waiting for receivers. Every one fully functional.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Thanks RetVet, You may have an answer to my problem. I separated the upper and lower receivers, then removed the bolt from the carrier and slid it into the breach. The bolt slides all the way in and drops down completely on the headspace pin, but if I insert a live round the bolt doesn?t drop all the way down, it stops at what looks to be around thirty-five thousandths short of being all the way down and bottomed out. I guess the next thing to do is remove the extractor and try it again to see if the extractor is hitting like you said. I looked into the recess for the extractor and can see a thread that it may be hitting, if it is it will be an easy fix. Thanks for the help on this, I?d still like to know how far the pin should extend from the face of the bolt when it?s fully forward, fifty thousandths seems a little short to me but it may be to spec, I?d just like to check.
 

Attachments

·
Angry White Man
Joined
·
3,379 Posts
I switched over to night shifts tonight. Didn't remember to measure the firing pin. I'll make a note for self to do that tomorrow when I get up.

Looking at your diagram, if the bolt isn't seating fully against the locking shoulder, then perhaps the extractor IS contacting the receiver recess and not allowing the bolt to slide fully into battery. Another possible cause for it not seating fully is if the headspace is set too tight. If you have a set of GO/NO GO gauges, insert the GO gauge in the clean chamber, assemble your bolt (stripped) into the carrier, then slide the bolt/carrier in and check the GO headspacing. The bolt should lock up with the GO gauge inserted. If it doesn't, your headspace is indeed too tight and you'll need to pull the locking shoulder and remeasure/set the headspace.
 

·
Angry White Man
Joined
·
3,379 Posts
I measured 2 sets of the 2 piece style inch pattern firing pins today. Both were from spare bolts, used, but look to be in good serviceable condition. Here's the numbers:

#1 long section = 3.306", short section = 1.095"

#2 long section = 3.303", short section = 1.091"

As you can see there's a few thousands difference between them. I'm of the opinion this small varience between sets is to be expected. The short sections were measured from end to end, the full length of the part.

GPG over at the FAL Files was selling replacement inch bolt/carrier assemblies, complete, for about $10 recently. Might be worth your while to swap out the complete bolt on yours. This may also solve that gap problem you're seeing between the rear of the bolt and the locking shoulder. You'll need to recheck headspace of course. HTH!

Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
RetVet said:
The short sections were measured from end to end, the full length of the part.
Dave
The short piece that has the striker end has a shoulder that stops its forward movement, so I?m not sure what the critical measurement really is, but thought the end towards the longer pin may be the one. If it was longer or if the shoulder is cut back a few thousandths it should make the firing pin extend further out when hit by the hammer, but I?d think this would most likely pierce the primer. Thanks for measuring your pins for me; it tells me I?m in the ballpark on OAL of the pin.
Tomorrow I?m going to try a few rounds of Remington 150GR. ammo I bought today, the bolt sits lower by half or more in comparison to the NATO ammo I tried, almost down flat on the headspacing pin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
OK it?s time for an update. I have tried the Remington ammo and it will work, I think it has a softer primer than the ammo I tried before. I also picked up a beautiful STG-58 kit and will be doing my first FAL build as soon as I can get a receiver. I removed the hammer-spring unit from the kit and found it?s a bit stronger than the new spring (From Tapco) I had put into the Century Rifle, so that may be another possible problem with it not firing the surplus ammo. I?ve gotten the gun to fire now but still have problems with jamming, it looks like the bolt just barely hits the rim of the shell (about .025) as it comes forward, most of the time it rides over the shell. Looking at it.025 doesn?t look like enough to me. From what I can see from checking the bolt faces on both the bolts I have, it looks like the wear marks on them are about .055 showing that the original guns picked up a lot more of the shell as it was stripped from the mag. I wonder if this is one of the problems found with the Century receivers? Anyone out there that knows Century Receivers please let me know if this is a common problem or of any other problems I should look for. I?m new to FAL?s and I?ll admit I need help here. I?ve got to say that Century builds a great looking rifle, I just wish they worked!
 

·
Angry White Man
Joined
·
3,379 Posts
Sounds like the mag may not be sitting high enough if the bolt is just barely catching the cases. You'll need to pull the top cover and remove the bolt. Insert a mag and see how high it sits. Century receivers are notorious for having tight mag wells, so perhaps the top portion of yours is a little tight and preventing the mag from going all the way up. This could be the problem even if the mag catch is locking up with the mag. The mag catch's themselves, or rather the hole drilled in the receiver for retaining it, isn't always located within spec.

The first Century receiver I built on required opening up of the mag well just to get the mag fully inserted without the use of a rubber hammer. That's how friggen tight it was!

As you're learning, the biggest trouble with troubleshooting FALs is that many problems can be contributed to more than one factor and they tend to be cumulative.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Things are looking up,I?ve gotten the gun to fire a few more rounds now and the bolt is sitting just right on the headspacing bolt now too. Now I need to fix the jamming problem. I found that the aluminum mag?s I used may have been a big part of my trouble, I think I bought them from Tapco but I?m not sure on that. With a little work they could work but I think they?re just too lightweight to last very long anyway so I?ll put them away for now. The steel mag?s I just got are much better and hold the shells higher, as far as the receiver it holds the mag?s up tight against the rails so it?s fine. I?ve found three other things going on.
1. The new hammer spring I bought from Tapco is weaker than the original spring.
2. The double bullet guides are much smaller than on the STG-58 kit I just bought. (See picture)
3. Slot for mag catch is undersize, Century ground the original catch thinner so it would fit their receiver. The new catch I bought won?t fit unless I grind it also.

The drawing was just drawn by eye so things aren?t exactly to scale. It shows the sizes of the Century bullet guides as compared to the STG-58 bullet guides, the STG?s are larger and smoother than Century?s are so I can see why the Century built gun jams. After a bit of Dremel work it should feed much better.
 

Attachments

1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top