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how much effort do you think would be required to get one to work in a chinese 223 AK i have one of the slant cut receiver butthole rifle
 

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Discussion Starter #42
how much effort do you think would be required to get one to work in a chinese 223 AK i have one of the slant cut receiver butthole rifle

I have tried it on one Chinese .223 and it fit perfectly without any mods at all. If an AR mag will fit in your rifle now and fit flush against the magrail, it will work for you the same way. AK's are fairly standard. Not exact, by any means, but close. Oh, BTW the receiver has to be stamped not milled, to fit without modding.
 

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[please send me a pm.. still rookie status. thanks!!

quote=renegadebuck;530063]Yes, I sell them. It's my design I've used for 2 years. I've never had a FTF out of mine. I have had a few out of the machined ones, but all that is fixed before shipping. It fits almost all stamped receivers and with minor changes will fit milled.[/quote]
 

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I mailed out the M/O.... but damit... I forgot to put the stamp so it is back in the mail now... duh... Thanks...

Damn rookie status to send a PM... :headbang:
 

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Discussion Starter #46
I mailed out the M/O.... but damit... I forgot to put the stamp so it is back in the mail now... duh... Thanks...

Damn rookie status to send a PM... :headbang:

I can't say a word. I told Coils I'd send him a spring right out, I put it in a envelope, stamped, ready to go, and it fell between the seats. I just found it this morning! The perils of living 1/2 a mile from your own mailbox! Sorry Coils, GF has the car at work so I'll mail it tomorrow. Try not to shoot me on sight.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
I can't say a word. I told Coils I'd send him a spring right out, I put it in a envelope, stamped, ready to go, and it fell between the seats. I just found it this morning! The perils of living 1/2 a mile from your own mailbox! Sorry Coils, GF has the car at work so I'll mail it tomorrow. Try not to shoot me on sight.

It wasn't Coils I was supposed to send the spring to. I read the address and looked it up. It's a guy from another forum. Either way, I dropped the ball on the spring. I hope he is forgiving.
 

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renegade; I was wondering if you are still offering the adapters. I tried to pm you here, but I don't have enough posts yet. I have a detailed PM to you on the saiga-12 forum with some questions if you can help me out. (Sorry for hi-jacking the thread). Mike...
 

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Discussion Starter #49
renegade; I was wondering if you are still offering the adapters. I tried to pm you here, but I don't have enough posts yet. I have a detailed PM to you on the saiga-12 forum with some questions if you can help me out. (Sorry for hi-jacking the thread). Mike...

I answered your PM on the other site. You will need to use this site for any pics or examples as it is much more user friendly to me.
Thanks.
 

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Thanks. I responded to your PM on the other sight with a couple more questions for clarification. Mainly about the possibility of having to grind the trunnion. Not too familiar with that. Also on what the procedure is for ordering an adapter.

I don't want to hi-jack anyone's thread. We could chat it here; or in the other PM; or we can email; or I can call you; whatever is convenient. thanks... mike....
 

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Hey renegade. I picked up an AR magazine today just to see how it would fit; so I could tell if/how much modification I will have to do to my saiga. The ar magazine definitely does NOT go in all the way to where the mag touches the mag-rail. Now, I am really bad with the terminology, so bear with me. I assumed the "TRUNNION" was the part just below the barrel. After closer inspection, I now assume that the trunnion is the entire piece that WRAPS AROUND from left to righ and in front of the barrel. So, can I assume that the part of the trunnion that you mention as needing to have some "GRINDING" done on it; are the 2 ends; left and right side; just above the rivet; that eventually rests on the TOP MOST FRONT of the magazine, where the notch gut out is on both sides of the magazine???

Assuming I am correct, I have 3 questions please.
1. What is the best way to grind this down? I have a dremmel with most every accessory for it. Cutting wheel, round grinding wheel, ?????
2. If I grind TOO MUCH, is that a major problem?
3. With it ground down; if I was to take out the adapter and put in the original magazine again, will that missing support make using the original magazine "Less" reliable. Thanks. Mike.....
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Hey renegade. I picked up an AR magazine today just to see how it would fit; so I could tell if/how much modification I will have to do to my saiga. The ar magazine definitely does NOT go in all the way to where the mag touches the mag-rail. Now, I am really bad with the terminology, so bear with me. I assumed the "TRUNNION" was the part just below the barrel. After closer inspection, I now assume that the trunnion is the entire piece that WRAPS AROUND from left to righ and in front of the barrel. So, can I assume that the part of the trunnion that you mention as needing to have some "GRINDING" done on it; are the 2 ends; left and right side; just above the rivet; that eventually rests on the TOP MOST FRONT of the magazine, where the notch gut out is on both sides of the magazine???

Assuming I am correct, I have 3 questions please.
1. What is the best way to grind this down? I have a dremmel with most every accessory for it. Cutting wheel, round grinding wheel, ?????
2. If I grind TOO MUCH, is that a major problem?
3. With it ground down; if I was to take out the adapter and put in the original magazine again, will that missing support make using the original magazine "Less" reliable. Thanks. Mike.....
You don't need to grind on the rivet and yes, the trunnion is the part that is riveted in the receiver and holds the barrel. You do have to grind very close to the rivet, however.
1. I use a dremmel and one of the little round, brown stones that come with it. The burrs will work, but take way too long and are not as smooth of a finish.
2. It kinda depends on your definition of "too much". Don't go crazy on it and the less you take off the better as this is part of the strength of the receiver. You don't have to be anal about it either and worry about getting it exactly to the nit of a gnat's ass. Just a little sloppy(about a thousandth or so) is ok as all mags are not exact, but you don't want to grind it where the front of the mag flops around everywhere.
3. The Surefires or any other mag that fits now, are just plastic (or metal?) and don't know you have ground on anything. It will not be effected.

Most of this info comes in the instructions, so you will have it in front of you if you need it.

Keep the questions coming if you have them.
 

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Sorry, But I think I am over thinking it. You keep saying "WIDTH". I don't SEE a width problem. I put the AR magazine in, and it STOPS going in all the way, because the FRONT of the magazine hits the 2 spots on the trunnion (Left and Right) that is right above (depending which way you're looking at it) the rivets. It's the same spot that the Saiga magazines hit. Except the saiga magazines have a deeper notch than the AR. In other words, I could notch the AR magazines more and it would probably fit. But obviously, we don't want to have to adjust magazines.

When you say "WIDTH"; I take that to mean, if I was looking down or up into the magazine well, that we would be grinding LEFT and RIGHT on the 2 points. But when I see the trunnion stopping the magazine from going in deeper, I see grinding as depth. I.e. If the gun is in my lap upside down, and I'm looking down into the magazine well, I would want to grind DOWNWARD on the 2 points so the magazine would go in deeper. WHAT AM I MISSING AND MISUNDERSTANDING HERE???? Damn, my head hurts. Thanks... Mike.....
 

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Maybe I can ask in a simpler format. I do better with Q&A. Let me try.

1. When a magazine is put in; either a saiga, surefire, or AR; the TOP of the magazine hits the 2 spots on the trunnion. On a Saiga/Surefire magazine, this spot on the magazine is a deeper cut, so the magazine goes deeper in, and is flush (Basically) with the mag rail. Correct?

2. When you say the WIDTH of the trunnion is too much for the AR magazine, are you saying I need to grind TOWARDS the outside of the weapon; making it thinner; so the AR magazine passes BETWEEN them? And thus when the magazine is in all the way and flush with the mag rail, that the trunnion WON'T BE TOUCHING the notches on the top of the magazine at all; but rather the SIDE of the magazine???

3. OR, are you saying that the trunnion needs to be ground deeper (UP or DOWN - depending on your view) so that the trunnion STILL TOUCHES the notches on the top of the magazine; just that it's deeper and the magazine can go in a little further so it contacts the mag rail.

In other words: If the gun is in my lap. Upside down. Totally field stripped. And I'm looking in the mag well from the bottom. And the gun is sitting so the barrel is facing forward; and the trunnion spots in question are on the LEFT and RIGHT of the mag well. If I was to take a dremmel straight downward into the mag well, would I want to grind the left one MORE LEFT, or MORE DOWNWARD. And the righ side; MORE RIGHT, or MORE DOWNWARD?

Hope that's a more accurate and clear question. By the way.... THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE. mike....
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Maybe I can ask in a simpler format. I do better with Q&A. Let me try.

1. When a magazine is put in; either a saiga, surefire, or AR; the TOP of the magazine hits the 2 spots on the trunnion. On a Saiga/Surefire magazine, this spot on the magazine is a deeper cut, so the magazine goes deeper in, and is flush (Basically) with the mag rail. Correct?

2. When you say the WIDTH of the trunnion is too much for the AR magazine, are you saying I need to grind TOWARDS the outside of the weapon; making it thinner; so the AR magazine passes BETWEEN them? And thus when the magazine is in all the way and flush with the mag rail, that the trunnion WON'T BE TOUCHING the notches on the top of the magazine at all; but rather the SIDE of the magazine???

3. OR, are you saying that the trunnion needs to be ground deeper (UP or DOWN - depending on your view) so that the trunnion STILL TOUCHES the notches on the top of the magazine; just that it's deeper and the magazine can go in a little further so it contacts the mag rail.

In other words: If the gun is in my lap. Upside down. Totally field stripped. And I'm looking in the mag well from the bottom. And the gun is sitting so the barrel is facing forward; and the trunnion spots in question are on the LEFT and RIGHT of the mag well. If I was to take a dremmel straight downward into the mag well, would I want to grind the left one MORE LEFT, or MORE DOWNWARD. And the righ side; MORE RIGHT, or MORE DOWNWARD?

Hope that's a more accurate and clear question. By the way.... THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE. mike....


Number 2 would be a winner!!!:rockin:
 

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So basically; the way the spots are now, the nubs that protrude outward, need to be ground down almost flush with the part lower than the nub which is where the rivet is? Again, so there is NO part of the trunnion touch the TOP of the magazine, but rather only the side of the magazine? Correct. thanks. mike...
 

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Renegade. Definitely thanks for all your help in understanding the grinding process. I believe I now understand the process and what needs to be done. It's definitely more grinding than I though it would require. And now I have to think hard if it's something I want to do. It's definitely something I can do, but not sure if I really want to grind that much off. There's definitely some advantages to using an AR adapter, and yours is definitely a quality build. And I've only heard great things about it. And the cost is reasonable. Money is definitely not an issue here. But I have to decide whether I would need/buy enough AR magazines to make it worth my time and money to do all the grinding; and potentially running into a problem. I'm not the type that thinks I need to have 10+ magazines. And the surefires, @ $28 from Mississippiarms, means that 5 Surefires would be the same price as 1 adapter and 4 AR magazines. So, I have to decide if 5 magazines; plus the 2 I already have, is enough. If it isn't, then the adapter plus AR mags is the way to go. If I think 5 additional magazines is enough, then that might be the way to go instead of grinding down the trunnion.

My biggest concern is the grinding. Not the HOW part, but the how much part. Most people it seems didn't have to grind much. The way my magazines sit in the well, will require quite a bit of grinding. And seeing that one customer who bought an MSA adapter, and totally screwed up his trunnion; to the point of the gun not being safe to shoot; worries me. Granted, it looks like he definitely did ask as many questions as I have, and he didn't know what/where to grind properly. And most people have had nothing but success. But for mine, it looks like a lot of grinding. I'll definitely have to think this through. Thanks again for all you help. I definitely understand the saiga a lot more than I did 48 hours ago. You are providing a great service to the various forums and visitors with your knowledge. Thanks again. Mike....
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Renegade. Definitely thanks for all your help in understanding the grinding process. I believe I now understand the process and what needs to be done. It's definitely more grinding than I though it would require. And now I have to think hard if it's something I want to do. It's definitely something I can do, but not sure if I really want to grind that much off. There's definitely some advantages to using an AR adapter, and yours is definitely a quality build. And I've only heard great things about it. And the cost is reasonable. Money is definitely not an issue here. But I have to decide whether I would need/buy enough AR magazines to make it worth my time and money to do all the grinding; and potentially running into a problem. I'm not the type that thinks I need to have 10+ magazines. And the surefires, @ $28 from Mississippiarms, means that 5 Surefires would be the same price as 1 adapter and 4 AR magazines. So, I have to decide if 5 magazines; plus the 2 I already have, is enough. If it isn't, then the adapter plus AR mags is the way to go. If I think 5 additional magazines is enough, then that might be the way to go instead of grinding down the trunnion.

My biggest concern is the grinding. Not the HOW part, but the how much part. Most people it seems didn't have to grind much. The way my magazines sit in the well, will require quite a bit of grinding. And seeing that one customer who bought an MSA adapter, and totally screwed up his trunnion; to the point of the gun not being safe to shoot; worries me. Granted, it looks like he definitely did ask as many questions as I have, and he didn't know what/where to grind properly. And most people have had nothing but success. But for mine, it looks like a lot of grinding. I'll definitely have to think this through. Thanks again for all you help. I definitely understand the saiga a lot more than I did 48 hours ago. You are providing a great service to the various forums and visitors with your knowledge. Thanks again. Mike....

No problem. It really doesn't require that much (it is more than a few licks with a file, but not enough to make much strength difference as the Chinese rifles don't need grinding and some Saigas don't either) and doesn't weaken your rifle as the mag is bracing the trunnion. On the other peoples adapter(all of them), you have to grind receiver too I'm told, not just trunnion. If that's true, that would definitely make it weaker without the adapter installed. Their adapters are used to strengthen the receiver. Mine strengthens it some, but not much as I don't need to make it weaker to fit the adapter. (No receiver grinding is required)
Good luck on your decision.
 

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Hey Renegade, just wondering if you had gotten the M/O and if you had sent the adapter? I will be out of the desert this week and then going back out on Sunday, was hoping it would be at home, so I can make the change... (and no ladies thats not menopause)... and test it out on the ranges....

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #60
Hey Renegade, just wondering if you had gotten the M/O and if you had sent the adapter? I will be out of the desert this week and then going back out on Sunday, was hoping it would be at home, so I can make the change... (and no ladies thats not menopause)... and test it out on the ranges....

Thanks

I received one today, PM sent to see if it was yours.(other than that, I'll have to look it up and see who it belongs to)
 
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