Sadly, that's why the dirty little bastards have so much of our business. We screw each other and they work together.
No wonder China is kicking our butts!
I'm trying to get the machine shop that made the last batch of adapters for me to do another one, with 3 small changes that will make them not have to spend hours fitting them. They made 100 last time, and I had to spend an hour or two on each one fitting it to pass my expectations, so I came up with some helpful changes. The shop wants to charge me extra to make the changes that will save them 300 or so hours. I don't understand some people and their greed. I only cleared about 15-20 bucks on each of them , depending on how much time it took to finish them.
I would rather make each of them myself as to have them made in China, so that's not an option, but I really don't like greedy people.
End of rant
I would rather make each of them myself as to have them made in China, so that's not an option, but I really don't like greedy people.
End of rant
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
i have had to deal with machine shops. that is why i built my own.
to the OP. ever consider making the adapter out of polymer?
to the OP. ever consider making the adapter out of polymer?
i have had to deal with machine shops. that is why i built my own.
to the OP. ever consider making the adapter out of polymer?
I have, but people seem to want metal. I really think it wouldn't matter. I can weld, but I can't do polymer, so steel is what I made them out of. I know they say some poly is stronger than steel, but I just can't seem to believe that. The new one for the Galil would be neat in polymer, but I don't know how well it would sell.
if you wanted to make a bunch of the for far less $$ polymer would be the way to go.
glocks,S&Ws MP series, all kinds of firearms made out of the stuff. i got a very old nylon 66 that still shoots like new--even though it has fired countless bricks in the last 40 years--
i would buy one in nylon/polymer.
glocks,S&Ws MP series, all kinds of firearms made out of the stuff. i got a very old nylon 66 that still shoots like new--even though it has fired countless bricks in the last 40 years--
i would buy one in nylon/polymer.
One good example of poly strength, look at the MD Arms 12 gauge drum, he drove his Toyota pick-up over it and it only put some scratches in it.
You would most likely have to make it with thicker walls but you should be able to still use the metal mag catch.
You would most likely have to make it with thicker walls but you should be able to still use the metal mag catch.
Hello renegadebuck,
J427x is on the right track !!! A contract machineshop is for prototype work or repair not factory, serial production. A machineshop can help you tool up your factory. Such work isn't cheap. If your are seeking to be a "captain of industry" you sometimes must start out as a corporal.
Far too often in this country gun parts and accessories are produced and retailled at prototype prices from small machineshops. Such items tend to be very spendy and buyers look for copies from asia.
If your product rates manufacturing vs prototyping then establish an efficient production facility even if it is in a small garage like the "two Steves" who started Apple Computers, or in a basement like Joey Hrudka (sp?) aka "Mr Gasket". Use machinery such as lathes, mills, grinders, etc to produce the special tooling, fixtures, jigs, and dedicated machines that make your product(s). Sometimes simple mods to a common little machine can alter it to produce your item with ease and for very little capital investment.
Manufacturing can be a creative, challenging, and fun enterprise.
VD
J427x is on the right track !!! A contract machineshop is for prototype work or repair not factory, serial production. A machineshop can help you tool up your factory. Such work isn't cheap. If your are seeking to be a "captain of industry" you sometimes must start out as a corporal.
Far too often in this country gun parts and accessories are produced and retailled at prototype prices from small machineshops. Such items tend to be very spendy and buyers look for copies from asia.
If your product rates manufacturing vs prototyping then establish an efficient production facility even if it is in a small garage like the "two Steves" who started Apple Computers, or in a basement like Joey Hrudka (sp?) aka "Mr Gasket". Use machinery such as lathes, mills, grinders, etc to produce the special tooling, fixtures, jigs, and dedicated machines that make your product(s). Sometimes simple mods to a common little machine can alter it to produce your item with ease and for very little capital investment.
Manufacturing can be a creative, challenging, and fun enterprise.
VD
One good example of poly strength, look at the MD Arms 12 gauge drum, he drove his Toyota pick-up over it and it only put some scratches in it.
You would most likely have to make it with thicker walls but you should be able to still use the metal mag catch.
You have one of them in metal. Would you rather have one in polymer?
Hello renegadebuck,
J427x is on the right track !!! A contract machineshop is for prototype work or repair not factory, serial production. A machineshop can help you tool up your factory. Such work isn't cheap. If your are seeking to be a "captain of industry" you sometimes must start out as a corporal.
Far too often in this country gun parts and accessories are produced and retailled at prototype prices from small machineshops. Such items tend to be very spendy and buyers look for copies from asia.
If your product rates manufacturing vs prototyping then establish an efficient production facility even if it is in a small garage like the "two Steves" who started Apple Computers, or in a basement like Joey Rudke (sp?) aka "Mr Gasket". Use machinery such as lathes, mills, grinders, etc to produce the special tooling, fixtures, jigs, and dedicated machines that make your product(s). Sometimes simple mods to a common little machine can alter it to produce your item with ease and for very little capital investment.
Manufacturing can be a creative, challenging, and fun enterprise.
VD
I really don't want to be a "captain", I would rather make one and make it work, after that the thrill is gone. I just like to make something new. Sometimes people like and want to buy them and I produce them. I would have rather just received 30% and let someone else make and sell them. It really should be done on a larger scale. I just don't know anyone that wanted to do that.
One good example of poly strength, look at the MD Arms 12 gauge drum, he drove his Toyota pick-up over it and it only put some scratches in it.
You would most likely have to make it with thicker walls but you should be able to still use the metal mag catch.
Was just throwing in my .02 centsYou have one of them in metal. Would you rather have one in polymer?
But I think your product would work being made out of plastic, just have to use the right stuff, as mentioned before some plastics are as good as metal.
Was just throwing in my .02 cents
But I think your product would work being made out of plastic, just have to use the right stuff, as mentioned before some plastics are as good as metal.
+1
i also have a cav-arms ar-15 lower that is nylon/polymer. the mag well works very well on it. i can't see any reason not to use it.
BTW a polymer mag adapter would also be very light. something to consider when your humping that rifle and 500rds in the brush.
+1
i also have a cav-arms ar-15 lower that is nylon/polymer. the mag well works very well on it. i can't see any reason not to use it.
BTW a polymer mag adapter would also be very light. something to consider when your humping that rifle and 500rds in the brush.
Now, box, packing, and adapter weighs less than 4 oz when I ship it. The steel adapter is probably only 2.5 oz more or less, so weight isn't really an issue.
Hi Rengadebuck,
Polymer molding, die casting, or MIM require molds that run in the tenthousands upfront. For the numbers you are planning to sell you are better off with laser-cutting (possibly stamping) and welding in fixtures.
Please talk to the machineshop owner again and try to negotiate a deal that is acceptable for both parties (and us waiting for the adpters).
Another area where Asians have a leg up on most of us is patience, which is key to negotiating.
Polymer molding, die casting, or MIM require molds that run in the tenthousands upfront. For the numbers you are planning to sell you are better off with laser-cutting (possibly stamping) and welding in fixtures.
Please talk to the machineshop owner again and try to negotiate a deal that is acceptable for both parties (and us waiting for the adpters).
Another area where Asians have a leg up on most of us is patience, which is key to negotiating.
Hi Rengadebuck,
Polymer molding, die casting, or MIM require molds that run in the tenthousands upfront. For the numbers you are planning to sell you are better off with laser-cutting (possibly stamping) and welding in fixtures.
Please talk to the machineshop owner again and try to negotiate a deal that is acceptable for both parties (and us waiting for the adpters).
Another area where Asians have a leg up on most of us is patience, which is key to negotiating.
Yeah, Laser cutting is how I have them made now. It works out pretty good. The only thing is consistency in the welding.
Try to incorporate some small tabs or "ears" in one part that interlock in notches on the other part. Then use a TIG welder (or robotic laser-welder) to melt the tabs into the surrounding material. Sometimes you can even spotweld several tabs against a flat surface in one shot. Whenever you tack-weld two pieces and have to take them apart again you will be amazed how much a couple spots hold. (Your car is held together by a couple thousand of them.) Longer beads will increase the risk of distorsion and the need for rework.
Feel free to PM me. I am not just a potential customer but also a mechanical engineer with extensive metal manufacturing background.
Feel free to PM me. I am not just a potential customer but also a mechanical engineer with extensive metal manufacturing background.
Hello alpine44,
You are quite right about the extreme costs of injection molding die work in this country !!
I tend to think that renegadebuck might be able to do 100% of his mag adapter fabrication "at home" with some basic tooling such as sheet metal shear brake, box notcher, drill press, jigs, arbor press, and a spot welder. Used equipment would suffice. It is difficult to say for certain exactly what could be used without viewing the item, materials, and tolerancing.
VD
You are quite right about the extreme costs of injection molding die work in this country !!
I tend to think that renegadebuck might be able to do 100% of his mag adapter fabrication "at home" with some basic tooling such as sheet metal shear brake, box notcher, drill press, jigs, arbor press, and a spot welder. Used equipment would suffice. It is difficult to say for certain exactly what could be used without viewing the item, materials, and tolerancing.
VD
Try to incorporate some small tabs or "ears" in one part that interlock in notches on the other part. Then use a TIG welder (or robotic laser-welder) to melt the tabs into the surrounding material. Sometimes you can even spotweld several tabs against a flat surface in one shot. Whenever you tack-weld two pieces and have to take them apart again you will be amazed how much a couple spots hold. (Your car is held together by a couple thousand of them.) Longer beads will increase the risk of distorsion and the need for rework.
Feel free to PM me. I am not just a potential customer but also a mechanical engineer with extensive metal manufacturing background.
I restore old cars for a living, so I know how strong a spot weld can be and it's downfalls.
Hello alpine44,
You are quite right about the extreme costs of injection molding die work in this country !!
I tend to think that renegadebuck might be able to do 100% of his mag adapter fabrication "at home" with some basic tooling such as sheet metal shear brake, box notcher, drill press, jigs, arbor press, and a spot welder. Used equipment would suffice. It is difficult to say for certain exactly what could be used without viewing the item, materials, and tolerancing.
VD
I have a TIG, and tried making them at first. They worked fine, but on a small part, every little flaw really sticks out and I don't have the small tools to really work on this. I didn't try having it laser cut and me just welding it up. The machine shop did(does), and it looks good. It used to take me 6 hours to make 1. No way could I charge what the time cost me, not counting the material. Then factor in the cost of ammo in testing each one(60 rounds each) and I was not feeding the bull dog. This left me no time to make a living. If I had to buy any equipment, I really lost., so it's let someone else make them or not do it.
I'm not far from Charlotte (40 miles or so), so if this shop doesn't want to make them, I'll find another. I also received an offer from someone on this board to quote on them. I will give them a chance!
To see what they look like, check out the Saiga section of this forum.
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
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