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Discussion Starter #1
I was at a gunshow this weekend and came across a table that had an SKS on it with one of the synthetic folding stocks and bayonet on it. It was a Norinco. It had a big sign beside it which said "Pre Ban" $300. I picked it up and proceeded to ask the dealer how to know if an SKS is a preban or not. He told me that if it came with a bayonet/spike installed that it was a true preban SKS. He also said that there is a place you can check the serial number to find out if it is a preban.

I had heard on a couple of occasions that using the serial number was a viable option in determining a guns history if you could find a place to verify it. However, I've never ran any of mine nor do I know of a place to check mine. This guy was a dealer...and he told me that if it came with a bayonet installed that it was a preban. Is this a 100% true statement? What if the guy before you installed it and left it there when he sold it to you? That, by not means, makes it a preban. I think this guy was blowing smoke up my a**!
 

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Josh,

You can buy brand new unissued SKS's for $150 With folding bayo.
They do not have a PG or detachable mag so there is no pre/post ban, as they are unaffected by the AWB.

If you want, after September, you can hang a folder on it.
They run around $45
 

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The dealer could have meant Chinese ban since the Chinese were banned from importation in 94, I think it was 94.

Anyway, Norinco's are Chinese and no longer importable to the US.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
7.62x39 said:
Josh,
If you want, after September, you can hang a folder on it.
They run around $45

No, a folding stock is what he had installed on it already and was claiming that because it was a pre ban he could have it there.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So, wouldn't you have to wait until September to add a folder to the SKS unless you could prove that the SKS was built prior to the AWB of '94. Sorry for all the questions.
 

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Correct! I get my ban years mixed up quite often and I stand corrected on this,

If we could just get rid of 1934, 1968, 1986, 1989, 1990, and 1994.........Sigh..

alexit said:
Check out:

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/semi_auto_faq.txt

Anything that would make the SKS un-importable after 922(r) took effect on November 30, 1990 is illegal and has nothing to do with the 1994 AW ban...you can only have the folder if you also have the required US-made parts installed.
 

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This stuff is damn near impossible to comprehend, no matter how hard I try.
For some reason I was thinking that the non detachable mag made the difference.

Number 4 below

27 CFR Section 178.40 Manufacture, transfer, and possession
of semiautomatic assault weapons.

(a) Prohibition. No person shall manufacture, transfer, or
possess a semiautomatic assault weapon.
(b) Exceptions. The provisions of paragraph (a) of this
section shall not apply to:
(1) The possession or transfer of any semiautomatic
assault weapon otherwise lawfully possessed in the United
States under Federal law on September 13, 1994;
(2) Any of the firearms, or replicas or duplicates of the
firearms, specified in 18 U.S.C. 922, Appendix A, as such
firearms existed on October 1, 1993;
(3) Any firearm that--
(i) Is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever, or
slide action;
(ii) Has been rendered permanently inoperable; or
(iii) Is an antique firearm;
(4) Any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a
detachable magazine that holds more than 5 rounds of
ammunition;
(5) Any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than
5 rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine;
(6) The manufacture for, transfer to, or possession by
the United States or a department or agency of the United
States or a State or a department, agency, or political
subdivision of a State, or a transfer to or possession by
a law enforcement officer employed by such an entity for
purposes of law enforcement;
(7) The transfer to a licensee under title I of the
Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2011 et seq.) for
purposes of establishing and maintaining an on-site
physical protection system and security organization
required by Federal law, or possession by an employee or
contractor of such licensee on-site for such purposes or
off-site for purposes of licensee-authorized training or
transportation of nuclear materials;
(8) The possession, by an individual who is retired from
service with a law enforcement agency and is not
otherwise prohibited from receiving a firearm, of a
semiautomatic assault weapon transferred to the
individual by the agency upon such retirement;
(9) The manufacture, transfer, or possession of a
semiautomatic assault weapon by a licensed manufacturer
or licensed importer for the purposes of testing or
experimentation as authorized by the Director under the
provisions of Section 178.153; or
(10) The manufacture, transfer, or possession of a
semiautomatic assault weapon by a licensed manufacturer,
licensed importer, or licensed dealer for the purpose of
exportation in compliance with the Arms Export Control
Act (22 U.S.C. 2778).
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So he was wrong to put a folder on the SKS based on the premise that it was a "pre-ban" SKS....unless he was able to prove something through a serial number. And, what would he prove? When it was imported or manufactured?
 

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Your dealer could prove two seperate items and have a legal SKS foldind stock model:

(1) Weapon was IMPORTED with folding stock before November 30th, 1990 - the importer maybe kept good records (or there was a FFL paper completed prior to this date.)

(2) Any of the firearms, or replicas or duplicates of the
firearms, specified in 18 U.S.C. 922, Appendix A, as such
firearms existed on October 1, 1993 - So if the folder was on the weapon BEFORE October 1st 1993 you don't need to have the US parts either.

Otherwise it better be a "US-Made" SKS...
 

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I still don't get it.
Wouldn't this exclude the SKS, in it's original configuration?

27 CFR Section 178.40 Manufacture, transfer, and possession
of semiautomatic assault weapons.

(a) Prohibition. No person shall manufacture, transfer, or
possess a semiautomatic assault weapon.
(b) Exceptions. The provisions of paragraph (a) of this section shall not apply to:
(1) The possession or transfer of any semiautomatic
assault weapon otherwise lawfully possessed in the United
States under Federal law on September 13, 1994;
(2) Any of the firearms, or replicas or duplicates of the
firearms, specified in 18 U.S.C. 922, Appendix A, as such
firearms existed on October 1, 1993;
(3) Any firearm that--
(i) Is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever, or
slide action;
(ii) Has been rendered permanently inoperable; or
(iii) Is an antique firearm;
(4) Any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than 5 rounds of ammunition
(5) Any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than
5 rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine;
(6) The manufacture for, transfer to, or possession by
the United States or a department or agency of the United
States or a State or a department, agency, or political
subdivision of a State, or a transfer to or possession by
a law enforcement officer employed by such an entity for
purposes of law enforcement;
(7) The transfer to a licensee under title I of the
Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2011 et seq.) for
purposes of establishing and maintaining an on-site
physical protection system and security organization
required by Federal law, or possession by an employee or
contractor of such licensee on-site for such purposes or
off-site for purposes of licensee-authorized training or
transportation of nuclear materials;
(8) The possession, by an individual who is retired from
service with a law enforcement agency and is not
otherwise prohibited from receiving a firearm, of a
semiautomatic assault weapon transferred to the
individual by the agency upon such retirement;
(9) The manufacture, transfer, or possession of a
semiautomatic assault weapon by a licensed manufacturer
or licensed importer for the purposes of testing or
experimentation as authorized by the Director under the
provisions of Section 178.153; or
(10) The manufacture, transfer, or possession of a
semiautomatic assault weapon by a licensed manufacturer,
licensed importer, or licensed dealer for the purpose of
exportation in compliance with the Arms Export Control
Act (22 U.S.C. 2778).
 

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You guys are in the same boat I was a few years ago.

Rule of thumb I go by. No folding stock on an SKS at all. No detachable mag on one either.

Chinese SKS's may not have a bayo attached just beacsue they are Chinese. Yugo's are okay because they are C&R as well as Russians, Romy's, and Alby's.

Chinese ones have never been considered C&R and never will because of the separate ban on Chinese AW style weapons. I know, I know.... SKS's really shouldn't be called AW's, but some think they are. Too many Chinese SKS's were commercial models too that China flooded the market with in the 80's and I guess the ATF thought there were too many or something for them to sort out???

Anyway, just my rules of thumbs as I understand it.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
7.62x39 said:
(4) Any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than 5 rounds of ammunition
Do the magazine boxes on SKS's not count as detachable?
 

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go to http://www.simonov.net/ there is a serial number thing there if I remember right. Also there is a lot of good sks info.
 

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http://www.simonov.net/uberid.htm has year of manufacture information.
Russian SKS's plainly state the year of manufacture on the receiver cover. Since the serial number resets for each year of manufacture, identifying this date is impossible if the cover is missing.



Romanian SKS's will have the year of manufacture immediately following the serial number on the left side of the receiver. The dates will range from 1957 - 1962.



Yugoslavian Production started in 1959 for the standard Simonov design, and 1966 for the grenade launching design. Nobody knows when production ended or how many were made. It is believed production records were destroyed in the recent Yugoslavian civil war. It is commonly believed by the historical firearm community that there is no way of determining the year of manufacture by looking at the weapon.



Chinese SKS's will code the year of manufacture in with the serial number. The number(s) in the million's placeholder of the serial number represent the year of manufacture. Unfortunately, there is a LOT of inconsistency regarding the numbering convention of Chinese SKS's. There will be some with letters tacked on to the end, some with only six digit alpha numeric serial numbers, and some with Cyrillic characters thrown in. If you strip off the trailing letter and if your numbers are still in the millions, the letter was most likely added to the serial number by the importer for control reasons. If there are Cyrillic letters involved or the serial number is only four digits, you have a Sino Soviet rifle made in 1956-57.



EX1: S# 2432000B = 2,432,000 = 1958 EX2: S# 18641000 = 18,641,000 = 1974



<1
1956
1
1957
2
1958
3
1959
4
1960
5
1961
6
1962
7
1963
8
1964
9
1965
10
1966
11
1967
12
1968
13
1969
14
1970
15
1971
16
1972
17
1973
18
1974
19
1975
20
1976
21
1977
22
1978
23
1979
The list goes on, but you get the idea...

The table didn't copy over correctly so it doesn't look as nice as on the site. Maybe this info will help.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Great information guys! This will really help me determine if my Chinese is a pre-ban, not that it will matter in a month or so!
 

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It's my understanding that even with the AWB out of the way, you still have to have 10 or less of the following items that are imported:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearm handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

My recommendation? Start buying US made parts from Tapco and keep the receipts. You might have to prove that you are in compliance. According to Tapco, you can now add folding stocks to your SKS as long as you meet those requirements.

And I'm planning on doing it before the country changes its collective mind. Or before Hiliary becomes president. (shudder)
 
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