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MoonShiner said:
I think he's referring to that diamond-shaped "thing" in the middle of the magazine throat. It's the part that makes 4 stacks into 2 stacks. There are some illustrations earlier in this post. Tell that lazy ass to get to work ! This ain't no NPT* system we're workin' on here !

*NPT = ***** People Time.
:cheers:
is that a piece of the mag? and where does it go whenthe feed lips are at the top?(second pic) you guys got me thinking of trying this. keep up the good work.:thumbup1:
 

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The follower has moving pieces, looks like. It appears to be a two-piece follower, with an arm that moves in reference to the diamond. It looks like the diamond doesn't inhibit the follower, which leads me to believe it doesn't go all the way from the front to the back of the magazine. I dunno, this design would be hard to afro-engineer. Fo' shizzle.
 

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The diamond-shaped separators do not extend all the way from front to back.

The shaded areas labeled 6 and 7 in the above picture represent the front and rear dividers respectively. They do not extend into the area occupied by the follower. The articulated portion of the follower slides between the dividers. The articulated portion merely collapses together where the magazine converges to a double-stack and is not designed to navigate the diamond-shaped dividers. The only portion of the follower that extends all the way from front to back of the magazine are the extreme left and right sides of the follower. The central area is short enough so that it slips through the gap between the forward and rear dividers.

Notice in the below picture that part 7 also references the divider. Part 6 would be hidden behind it since heightwise they are in the same area of the magazine. As the follower rises, it would slide behind part 7 in that picture, but in front of part 6, which the above image illustrates.


The only reason the diamond is gone in one of the pictures is to allow a clear view of the configuration of the follower in the uppermost position.
 

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I don't mean to join into a discussion where I don't have much knowledge, but for one...I want one...or two... LOL, anyway after looking at the diagram it appears that what is shown is two magazine bodies with the sides cut off to allow a single or joined spring to to move between them to puch up the stacker, as far as the diamond and the two sides of the followes splitting it seams a bit complicated for what it is, very smart but complicated. does anyone here think that possibly the same setup with the follower could be used? Perhaps made not to be able to split but instead spring loaded to stay in the quad position forcing the rounds to go into the cone and then be double stacked when the sides of the follower engauge the base of the cone they would begin to slowly collapse as each round was fired and eventually go up into the standard dual stack portion, the length of the follower would have to be long enough so that when the spring "bottoms out" at the base of the cone the follower would be at the top of the mad and the last round could be fired. the shorter the dual stack portion of the mag the shorter the follower assembly would need to be, which would equal more rounds able to be used.

Maybe a billet alluminum follower with "wings" \||/ with a spring run through the billet main follower to each wing keeping them outward until contact with the spring. the wings would probably have to be rounded to allow them to easily collapse as they contact the cone.


I know that it probably sounds stupid and I'm sure there are alot of you out there brain storming on this but a fresh thought from time to time helps. if it works keep us posted I can see myself trying it out and having a few ;)

Twissted1
 

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If I'm following your description correctly, what you're describing is what the follower actually does in the Russian patent. The only difference I see is that in the Russian patent, the magazine spring itself keeps tension on the collapsible arms of the follower to keep them in the quad-stack configuration, rather than relying on separate springs.
 

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I understand what Twissted1 is saying. I also don't think it would be to hard to copy the origonal design of the follower and mod it to materials the builder is use to using. I just can't grasp it from the drawing, I understand how the "wings" work I just can't get the full picture in my head to try and make one.
What would make it easier for me to attempt this would be to have some pics and measurements of an actual quad stack follower.
Does anyone know someone who has one of these? See if they could disassemble one of these mags and take a few pics and measurements of the follower.
 

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magnus392 said:
Center support design? I am not sure I follow you Pookie.
Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear.

OK, here's the "P-MAG" pic from my website:

http://pookieweb.dyndns.org:61129/mags/pmag/p-mag1.jpg

That "center support" I'm referring to is the part of the magazine sides that butt against each other, at the point where the feed lips are removed and higher. They serve to keep the dummy round followers moving upward.

What I'm getting at is that I'm not sure if the design in that pic I see has enough meat up there to keep the follower dummy rounds from moving side-to-side and failing to feed. Does that make better sense? It seems to me that without that divider, the rounds would bunch up since they are going from a double-stack wide channel (in the magazine body) to a "quad-stack" wide area. Sure, it tapers to the top, but if those belted dummy rounds act like I think they will, they would bunch up and jam.
 

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Twissted1 said:
Maybe a billet alluminum follower with "wings" \||/ with a spring run through the billet main follower to each wing keeping them outward until contact with the spring. the wings would probably have to be rounded to allow them to easily collapse as they contact the cone.
I had envisioned something like that before I thought to imitate the "dummy follower" idea. In my opinion, if you were able to mill a groove on matching sides of the magazine bodies, then you would have that slot which a follower of that design could use as a track. The two followers (one per mag body) would need to be connected to keep them timed.

Looking from the top (or bottom), the holes in the magazines would resemble a big "H" once they were joined together. That groove would be VERY VERY VERY close to something you see in those training mags where the side of the magazine body is cut out to let you see them. It would also look a lot like that crappy WW1 French machine gun that had that U-shaped magazine which was all open on the sides...
 

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If there's nothing to link the followers together, what would keep one side from feeding more than the other? Say one side had a weaker spring or was in a bind.
 

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Exactly, that's why I was saying that would need a linked support. Assuming there is no major issue with the springs, then it should be just like a Beta C-Mag. Those have two springs that aren't timed and there are no issues there. The two "snail" sides each feed into the tower. If there was a bump on one side, then the other side could conceivably double-feed (or bind!) causing an issue. So it should be about the same with this. If not, it wouldn't be too terribly hard to link them up.
 

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I think the main problem with the 2 mags side by side going into a single feed tower would be loading it, getting the rounds to alternate into both mags.

HCP when you said about the BETA-C mags I thought about those German MG34 (I think) twin drum mags. How much do mags like that run? I think it would be easy to adapt something like that to an AK.
 

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I believe the saddle drums just hold the linked ammo.. no springs. no follower. Not quite the same.
 

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The idea I was getting at doesn't involve two seperate mags, nor does it involve dummy rounds, my theory is to remove the sides from each mag and weld them together with both springs either wired together or otherwise attached to one another side by side to avoid one side emptying and causing binding. the angle or slope of the merging portion I am unsure of, but I feel rather strongly that this could be acomplished with the billet follower and outer wing setup, each side would follow the contour of the merging cone forcing all rounds up at once. the main trick for this to work is to keep a nice clean and polished interior so there is nothing for the assembly to snag on. I personally do not have any welding tools or I would gladly attempt this myself I just hope someone might put it to the test. just be sure the billet follower is long enough to push even the last round to the top. The lack of two seperate mags would eliminate mag loading issues. if it's a stupid idea someone please just say so but it is something I could see working in my mind.

Twissted
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Twisted try it on polymer 74 mags;) No welder needed except for the floor plates, or make one.

Guys, as far as the russian follower goes, imagine to popsicle sticks crossed with a pin through them for an axis. I would use two of those setups the slot the follower so then it he the slope the "popsicle" followers followed the contour and continued to feed rounds.

That is the next test after this one.

Pookie I may very well have to built up the center divide to keep rounds from going stupid. That is why the front of the mag is still open.
 

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SA58 said:
I believe the saddle drums just hold the linked ammo.. no springs. no follower. Not quite the same.
The single drum/basket that hangs off the side is just a belt holder. The "droppeltrammel" (sp?) 8mm double drum mag is basically a predessessor of the beta mag. A special topcover is used and the mag sits on it "upside down" with the drums hanging down on each side. They are wound up and feed unlinked cartridges in the same manner as the beta. Not cheap, IIRC they go for around $500 in original condition. Somebody converts these to .308 and adds a FAL/G3/M14 mag "feed tower" and sells them for over a grand apiece. :eek:
 

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You know, if all else fails, you can always make the feed-tower single-stack, forcing the ammo to be fed exclusively to the right side of the magazine. This might be easier than trying to make double-stacked from quad-stack behave. You *might* have to re-contour the inside if your magazine to make it flow a little smoother (put more rounded guts in it, for example). Just an idea.
:cheers:
 

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I used to be a model maker. If you use Lexan you can cut it with woodworkind tools, glue it with solvent glue, split it back apart with a sharp blade and the ugly prototype can be filled, sanded painted and will be unbreakable. Good luck.
OLD SANG
 

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Kernelkrink knows the one I mean, the one that looks like a BETA-C but is mounted upside down on the top. To bad they cost so much, I think they would be easy to modify for a lot of different rifles.

Great idea Old Sang, I might try using Lexan to make a housing and experiment with a spreading follower.

No it's not a "stupid idea" Twissted, I get what you mean. But even after looking at the drawings and with Magnus's "popsicle sticks" discription I still don't see how the 2 "wings" in the follower do what they do, man I'm starting to confuse myself?!?!? I see how the flats on these wings keep them pushed out using the spring pressure from the mag spring, and I see they get pushed inward when they get to the double stack part of the mag. Are there 4 of these wings, 2 at the front and 2 at the back of the follower? If they are at the front & back are they joined together (left side together & right side together) some how? How is the follower shaped to let these wings fold in when it get to the double stack part of the mag?
It's just hard to picture some of these things that the drawings don't show.
 
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